SEN funding isn't a bottomless money pit

[Sogfree]

I'll preface this by saying I really enjoy my job working in a SEN school. I care deeply for the children and families I work with.

I've had 4 different conversations this week with parents where they expect an excessive amount of additional resource to be allocated to their child. They expect this as, in their opinion, it's needed. I disagree with 3 of the 4 parents that this is needed.

All 4 of the parents are going to fight the decisions county have made. Their decision to fight will mean county spend more money arguing the challenge.

Services are already broken with the increase in need. Recruitment fails, as there aren't enough speech therapists/OTs/CAMHS practitioners etc to employ.

One parent demanding extra from one of these services means another child gets less.

One parent demanding a child goes to school X at £100k per year when a place at school Y at £30k is going to meet their needs means the child who needs the place at school X doesn't get it, and extra £70k per year is wasted. And the parent keeps their child out of school for 12-18 months whilst they fight for the place at school X.

That's the reality.

Every parent wants the world for their child. I understand that. But taxpayers can't afford to give every child the world.

AIBU - parents know their child best and we should fund what the parents say the child needs

YANBU - there's only so much money to go around and parents need to accept hard decisions have to be made without challenging them

Many people won't know their child has Sen until they've already had another and many CYP aren't diagnosed until they're in school, often even secondary school. In the meantime if we raise a concern we get told they're fine and we're being silly, or we just want a label so our child can be extra special, or we're just looking to excuse bad behaviour when we're actually just shit parents (even when your child is so terrified of breaking a rule they literally never, misbehave 🤣)

It might shock you that the staff in LAs are not interested in a fight, once a child has been placed somewhere and started to settle they won't look to move them lightly.

You seem to be labouring under the delusion that LA staff take some sort of pleasure in not agreeing parents requests.

You sound like someone who has had a tough time with your own kids, and doesn't have masses of professional experience to add that context and view of both sides. As I say all three of my children have significant SEND, I have lived through the challenges it brings.

I'm sorry you feel so angry, it's oozing out of every post. I'm not going to engage with you any more.

I know 2 parents where the LA commissioned OT recommended more provision than their independent reports.

It's so tricky. I think parents and carers of children with SEND have such a tough time and need to fight so hard to get anywhere in the system with have.
However, as a teacher in a Special school, I find some EHCPs create very unreal expectations. They're written by non-teachers who don't have to deliver on the outcomes. To be honest, they sometimes read like a wishlist. I've experienced parents who insist that every single intervention mentioned is acted on (which I understand given it's the school's legal responsibility). However, this always takes staffing away from other children who then get a bit less (particularly if it stipulates 1:1). I have one child who has so many interventions he's always out of class and is falling behind with the curriculum content. This is a particular problem if they're doing accredited courses. We don't have unlimited staffing, resources or indeed, hours in the day. It feels like those who shout the loudest get more!
I do feel that other professionals who are involved in the planning stage have a responsibility to be sensible and realistic.

I think the gist is that people feel there needs to be a fairer and more equitable system, to ensure that finite resources are fairly distributed.

SARs requests tend to prove otherwise.

Exactly. Of course parents (with the resources and skills to) are going to fight for everything they possibly can for their children.

The system needs to be robust enough to allocate resources fairly - not just in relation to those children without well resourced parents but also in relation to the needs of society as a whole

We never needed independent ones as the la OT /SLT and even their ED Psych who they sent for a updated assessment were great.

I found the problem with ours was the continuous change in ehcp co ordinators made it confusing and they had different opinions.

our other issue was that they did actually ask the ED psych directly about secondary placement and she said 100 percent Sen setting do not send her to a mainstream !
the issue the la had was none of the Sen schools would take her because she was cognitively to advanced for their peer group.

That’s disgusting to blame SEN for the year on year cuts in council funding and pretend that the denigration of those services is an unfair distribution.

All of those services are being run down by a lack of funding from central government. This is not a case of sharp elbowed parents robbing the libraries of resources.

It's realistic not disgusting. If one local authority area is consistently overspent it has to come from somewhere.
This is exactly what the original post is referring to.
We all wish there was a bottomless pit of money for SEND, but there isn't. There is a finite amount of resources to go around.

People are brilliant at extrapolating and putting words into the posts of others on this thread.

Here I tends to be the LA will refuse to carry out assessments (other than EP), until the parents commission an independent one, then the LA will insist on carrying out their own.

I emailed my coordinator on Friday, OOO message, no return date. Same for her boss. I rang them, after 20 minutes my details were taken and I was told I have to allow 5 working days for a callback.

Love how you are applying your own thoughts to “people” and making out these thoughts and biases are generically spread across the population.

Those children have legal rights and it’s the role of local authorities to implement those rights. Yeah it is disgusting that these have to be fought for when it is a legal duty for authorities to implement them.

Its clear by people I mean the OP and those agreeing with them.

I don't think anyone wants to see legal rights eroded, rather more robust legislation to ensure that the resources available are used fairly amongst all of those in need, not just those with sharp elbowed parents.

The reality is that every time one child gets more than they need, another gets less.

But the school and staff know the child in a school setting much better than the parents

There aren't really any meaningful consequences for LAs that act unlawfully. They use the tribunal system to their advantage as they waiting for hearings let's them kick the kids down the road. At one point last year my LA admitted only 1% of EHCPs were issued within statutory deadlines.

They're not getting "more", they're getting what they actually need and what is legally required to provide their human right to an education!

every time one child gets more than they need

DC don’t get more than what they have been judged to need in line with the current law. Just because some don’t think they need it, doesn’t mean they don’t actually need it.

The specialist school “business” or “service provider” will always state the child is making “exceptional progress”. It’s their business and in their financial interest. They want to get LA funding approved and continued for the next year for the young person. Big money.

Of course, it’s wonderful the child you mention is happy and I assume now attending this “school” frequently - but it’s also likely they are not learning/or doing/or applying very much or expected to do very much - but just being babysat in an often beautiful building on beautiful grounds with biscuits and coloring. Again, this is fine but these “providers” doesn’t ask a lot cognitively of the students and they are often “taught” cooking or Forest “skills” by staff who are paid poorly - but I guess OP is asking why does this cost 100K plus a year? And can the country afford this going forward?

It does seem expensive and it does seem the country is skint.

What do you believe the reason for the delay are?

The key causes of delays are
Increasing numbers of requests (about 230% from pre pandemic in my LA)
Thr very low level of the 2 part test to assess combined with increasing likelihood of any 'no' decision being appealed makes it very difficult to not agree to assess, even when it's clear a plan is unlikely to be issued. This means that they have to have an EP assessment.
There are not enough EPs in the country to meet demand and although some moves are being made to increase this, it takes years to be a fully qualified EP. The EP is the major cause of delay in many LAs. There are limited actions to improve this as there are nationally not enough EPs. Even locums have huge waitlist etc.
Capacity in Casework teams is an issue but easier to resolve as it does not take as long to train up and there is a ready supply of people escaping SENCO roles.

Do you think people are sitting round, drinking coffee and filing their nails and not bothering to write your child's plan? Because I can assure you they aren't. The SEND case officers in my LA work a ridiculous number of unpaid extra hours to try and keep on top of the workload.

I also get really annoyed with the use of the word unlawful. If you have 30 unplaced children on your caseload and there are a total of 5 places in schools that they could realistically attend, you can't magic up more places. If you refer a child for an EP assessment and the dare you are given is outside of timescale there are no other EPs floating around who can do it sooner. It's ridiculous to say people stuck working in this situation are acting 'unlawfully'. It's turning into a proper bloody buzz word though.

My own son got horribly caught up and affected in these delays. This is one of the key reasons why I believe the system needs an overhaul to ensure the children with milder SEND can get support without being subject to a lengthy statutory assessment and free up capacity for those with more complex needs.

The amount of projecting that goes on about LA staff just because they can't do the impossible is really vindictive.

I am well aware of the cuts in govt grant but actually that is not the only cause. Spiralling costs for adults social care and SEN is also a massive factor

I would love there to be enough money for everything. I don't blame individual parents at all for fighting their children's corner.

But we all have to accept there isn't a bottomless pit of money and that hard decisions need to be made.

And the system does need huge reform, to rebalance spending.

Again this is because LAs are placed in an impossible position. The staff there aren't sitting with their feet up. The EHCP system has grown monumentally since 2016, and especially post COVID.

Examples:
Birmingham 6873 ehcps 2018-19
12,108 EHCPs by March 2025.

Manchester
3,090 EHCPs in 2019
8670 EHCPs Oct 2024

Hampshire
9750 EHCPs in Sept 2019
17731 EHCPs Dec 2024

Just selected these at random. It's the same story everywhere.

There has been no doubling of the staffing to cope with this influx of statutory assessments. This is why LAs are breaking the law on timescales. It's not just because they can't be arsed!

Edited - cross posted with @CleverButScatty

Exactly!!!

Cutting staff numbers means it inevitably takes longer.

I used to work in a similar area. We would be accused (in nasty emails from service users) of sitting idle. In reality the staff were overworking themselves into a nervous breakdown as staff levels were cut at the same time as demand soared.

But another child is getting much less. And other services are being outright scrapped. Somehow the distribution needs to be much fairer.

I am physically disabled but I am lucky because I can afford to drive. Disabled people and people who can't drive for other reasons round here are actually stuck and isolated now because the local authority has scrapped subsidies for bus services. So many bus routes have been cut as a result. It's hugely isolating for those people and some of them are desperate. And we aren't even in a rural area. But all the local libraries have closed too. The charity I volunteer for helps where it can, with grants for occasional taxis etc. But those bus services and libraries were a lifeline for many

Again, I would love everyone to have everything they need and indeed want. But if that isn't possible then what resources we have should be shared evenly and equitably

Overspending is often the LAs own fault.

Ours can't add up so messed up their gov funding for years (still ongoing)

they refuse early intervention referrals so situations escalate and require more expensive provision in the long run

they make unlawful decisions so whilst waiting for tribunals or for the parents and schools that get mugged off with 'try again later' things escalate and see above

they don't challenge schools so things escalate and.....yep, it costs more in the long run

They would rather let a parent appeal and endure those costs than name a school listed under section 38(3) that said no, when they have the legal power to name them and can't produce any kind of legal argument as to why they won't

I was refused a personal budget. My PB request was thousands less than if the LA provided the provision. They'd rather overspend then blame the 'demanding' parents.

I recently did a tribunal involving social care. First they offered to double the support they'd originally offered (which brings up all kinds of questions!) But what they proposed in support (1-1 carer for 10 (then 20) hrs a week) wasn't suitable. They acknowledged the support wasn't right and that what we proposed could actually meet needs but refused to budge even though what we suggested was thousands cheaper. (Perhaps they were hoping we'd never use it if it was unsuitable so it's a craft way of saving £££ because sod the CYP in the middle)

I'm yet to see an appeal with any kind of legal argument from my LA. In one appeal they submitted NO evidence. But yeah let's blame the sharp elbowed parents for the LAs overspending too.