SEN funding isn't a bottomless money pit

[Sogfree]

I'll preface this by saying I really enjoy my job working in a SEN school. I care deeply for the children and families I work with.

I've had 4 different conversations this week with parents where they expect an excessive amount of additional resource to be allocated to their child. They expect this as, in their opinion, it's needed. I disagree with 3 of the 4 parents that this is needed.

All 4 of the parents are going to fight the decisions county have made. Their decision to fight will mean county spend more money arguing the challenge.

Services are already broken with the increase in need. Recruitment fails, as there aren't enough speech therapists/OTs/CAMHS practitioners etc to employ.

One parent demanding extra from one of these services means another child gets less.

One parent demanding a child goes to school X at £100k per year when a place at school Y at £30k is going to meet their needs means the child who needs the place at school X doesn't get it, and extra £70k per year is wasted. And the parent keeps their child out of school for 12-18 months whilst they fight for the place at school X.

That's the reality.

Every parent wants the world for their child. I understand that. But taxpayers can't afford to give every child the world.

AIBU - parents know their child best and we should fund what the parents say the child needs

YANBU - there's only so much money to go around and parents need to accept hard decisions have to be made without challenging them

It's an over simplification to say we have a "finite budget". Yes budgets are set for the current financial year and the next to an extent.

Do you think that when the financial crisis of 2008 and then Covid occurred, that governments around the world had some kind of slush fund they dipped into? Of course not in the majority of cases: they had to issue extra government debt to cover the unexpected emergency funding.

What governments spend is based on their priorities, what they think the voters will put up with, and how much the money markets will lend them.

Education (and certainly the SEND part of it) is, very sadly, a low priority in this country despite all the public virtue signalling and column inches. Just look at the state of the school buildings. If we wanted to do it, we could certainly borrow the money. The UK has a good credit rating and is internationally famous for (some aspects of) its education system.

It’s so difficult. We all want to do the best for our DC.

We are awaiting DS’s EHCP draft to be issued next week and I’m prepared for a fight. But I’m also very realistic about what is reasonable and proportionate to his needs. I sometimes think others aren’t. It isn’t down to schools or LAs to provide EVERYTHING your child needs. In the same way I don’t expect school to teach neurotypical DD to tie her shoelaces or wipe her bum, there are strategies we can employ at home, activities we can undertake, conversations we can have etc. that don’t necessarily NEED to be delivered by an OT/physio/SALT.

I think part of the problem is that parents are so disempowered, that they don’t realise how much they can do for themselves.

But I do think the "win" percentage gets misrepresented for BFI appeals. It includes any of the amendments proposed by the parent being agreed as a win for the parents. The reality is a lot of parents feel they had lost if they don't get their school preference named in I, but the statistics aren't broken down that way. I feel this is making parents underestimate the need to present solid evidence of educational needs. Anecdotal but I've seen a lot more "we lost" posts in the various SEN groups I'm in, and it becomes apparent the parents have relied on paediatrician/ASD health reports, and not EPs/OT/SALT etc.

That's not totally correct. Schools do not see the impact of what happens at school when a child gets home. Children will let their barriers down at home and the anger, frustration, anxiety, meltdown, burnout all come out and the parent is the one to then deal with that. If you understand masking then you'll understand why teachers do not see the impact on the child of a setting that isn't working for them.

@OneWildandWonderfulLife I am so sorry that happened to you, but what an inspiring outcome!

Very much this. Minor accommodations are refused until it grows into a bigger and more expensive problem to address.

I assume you have literally no knowledge of anything of which you are posting. Because even the most ignorant SEND employee would be aware that children mask at school and the fall out is happening for the parents for the other 18 hours of the child's day.

Please though. Feel free to embarrass yourself.

She is talking about education. Large number of parents are having to drop out of the workforce to educate their children because there is no suitable state provision for children with SEND. Did you ever consider maybe reading up on an issue - if you have zero personal experience of it - before commenting?

I actually think my child's (really nice and competent) teachers would be absolutely flabbergasted if they saw video footage of her home behaviour.

They essentially don't meet the same child.

We are extremely lucky they've always believed us when we've disclosed.

We spend 60, 000 pounds on prisoners a year, but that kind of money for a limited time on children is an issue.

@RareGoalsVerge is right. There's no such thing as not enough budget. There's what we as a society choose to prioritise and we don't prioritise education. The Government simply chooses to throw money elsewhere. In some European countries there isn't even a word or phrase for 'special school', because they don't have them. The right to a quality education is so ingrained in their thought process and practical administration processes that it doesn't even occur to them to send a child who needs extra help away.

I think if that attitudes you've expressed are genuine, you've become jaded and should look for alternative employment. Parents should put up and shut up? (or, 'not challenge' decisions, as you put it). How do you think change happens? Through multiple people finding the strength to challenge and keep fighting for the change that is needed. And what do you think will happen to your already inadequate school budget if no one challenges anything? The Gov will think, gee, that school is managing well on £x per year, they'll cope with us cutting funding by another £50k per year.

We could allow asylum seekers to work - that would help a lot.

With the children it is not "child care" it's respite. And keeping their parents sane means that the tax payer is saving a fortune. Because if you're annoyed about the cost of send school, let me introduce you to the cost of care homes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9qg94d45zxo 41% of parents with SEN children have had to leave their jobs (it's normally the mums). I was "lucky" - I am a teacher so I knew what to do and say so I've only had to go part time not leave.

I've worked as a lawyer in a disability decisions appeals team.

"How to argue"= know what questions they're considering and what the thresholds are.

"Have done the right prep"= gathering the necessary evidence to support your position re the above.

You phrase it as though it's cynical verging on fraudulent, as though parents are gaming the appeals system, and as though fighting decisions is a "waste" of resources and not a right built into the system for all families in order to ensure justice and fairness.

Pretty disturbing perspective from someone working in the sector tbh.

Thus thread is a discussion, insulting people with different opinions is not an adult discussion, everyone has different experiences and views and they are entitled to express them in a courtesy manner.

@DonningMyHardHat if DC didn’t reasonably require (in the legal sense) provision to be delivered by a physio/OT/SALT, it wouldn’t be detailed, specified and quantified in F of an EHCP.

Oh good let's have a pop at immigrants on the thread about disabled kids

Anyone else we've missed?

I think we've missed the gays and kittens. Let's make sure we get all those responsible for life's woes

Exactly. There are far far far too many teachers who believe parents are ‘mentally unwell’ ‘demanding’ ‘malingering’ etc etc - the lack of basic respect from teachers has been astounding ime

Being a sen child doesn't mean their education is optional.

Not read the whole thread but a major issues in my opinion are:
Privatisation of education- SEN schools ran by companies often with controlling interests in countries like Dubai, that charge a fortune for EHCP so local authorities have to pay. They often have their own legal team to fight in tribunals so parents win and £100k a year for, what could be, 10 years or more is agreed.
Inclusion at all costs for academically able children - the inclusion agenda is very important but just because a child can get GCSEs does not mean they can cope in a huge school in classes of 30. Smaller schools focused around ASD or trauma are needed but often are not available.
OFSTED and accountability- test results canbe measured, attendance can be and progress academically. Schools are flogged for these and so often don't make the reasonable adjustments needed for individuals which causes issues in the long run.

Solutions - all SEN schools set up by LAs. No more chief execs paid ridiculous amounts. A national picture of SEN schools and identification of where different schools are needed. Thought given to schools for academically able SEN young people that have high standards but build on resilience and skills for the future everyday so these young people can reach their potential. Ofsted take on a supportive role of helping schools not beating schools

DS3's headteacher at our local mainstream had asked me several times to move him to another school, even offered to fund DS4 in wraparound care to facilitate it. But on paper she would respond that the school could meet needs. The LA weren't innocent, a rep was in the meeting where the headteacher made the wraparound care proposal. When I spoke to the LA rep afterwards, she said the headteacher shouldn't have said that. But also omitted it from the meeting notes.

It was to be the LA's undoing as their tribunal case was just to prove what an awful person I was. I don't deny I am but this wasn't the purpose of the SENDIST hearing. Realistically our evidence wasn't actually that strong to support an independent school (at that time) but the LA shot themselves in the foot by focusing on me and consulting only mainstream schools, 17 said no, they found 1 that said yes. But it was apparent at the hearing they couldn't meet his needs and openly admitted it would be months before they could recruit an LSA and that SEN children absconding from the school site was just to be expected.

I think the way you have put this question is disgustingly biased “Give the parents what they want”.

People have to go to incredible lengths to prove that schools are unsuitable for their child. They don’t waltz up to a tribunal and get what they want despite the fact that you claim you have seen this twice in the last five years.

You are not an educational psychologist and I would argue you do not have the expertise or qualifications to stipulate what a child requires.

Funding anything - particularly as one of the top earning countries of the world - is about political decisions and I don’t see you complaining about any other public service here. Simply about services for disabled young people that we “cannot afford” aka do not want to afford.

Disabled people and their families have been lobbying for decades for better services and not to be left on the scrap heap. And you’d like to take all this away with your holier than thou rhetoric.

You don’t mention their legal rights and you don’t even mention what you do in this school and have positioned yourself as some sort of expert.

I think your ethics are at question here.

Have you thought about getting yourself a job in another industry where you don’t harbour resentment towards your clients?

You don't have a valid opinion though. You have genuinely embarrassed yourself by saying that and shown to anyone reading the thread your awareness of the matter.

It's like me popping onto a thread for people learning Mandarin. It would be pointless and I'd embarrass myself because I haven't got a fucking clue.

The greatest good for the greatest number.