To think that successful people find the right loopholes?

[ThisOchreShaker]

People like to say that success comes from hard work, talent or luck but isn’t it really about knowing how to work the system? Whether it’s tax loopholes, industry hacks or just understanding the unspoken rules of social and professional life, the most successful people seem to find and use the right loopholes to their advantage. AIBU to think that knowing where to bend the rules (without breaking them) is just as important as hard work?

Doesn’t knowing how to work the system come from either work, talent or luck as well? It’s not separate those.

If you learned the loopholes @ThisOchreShaker would you have the acumen or the gumption to then use them and break the rules? Or would you sit there with an even more painful knowledge of how unfair life is?

I don’t think they’re totally separate but I guess I’m saying the people who really rise often combine the three with a kind of strategic opportunism. Not just working hard but knowing where effort actually pays off. Not just being talented but knowing how to package it to the right people. Not just luck but knowing how to turn a chance moment into long-term gain. It’s not about being unethical - just knowing how to read the room, play the game or take the clever shortcut when others stick to the script.

You say loopholes, I say setting gaining experience, confidence and knowledge, setting strong professional boundaries etc.

I was born in the UK to a loving family and am intelligent which is certainly a good start. I didn't have the advantage of money, class or privilege though.

Some of the best careers are where people make it up as they go along and carve a niche for themselves, I've always said that to DDs.

It’s not about being unethical - just knowing how to read the room, play the game or take the clever shortcut when others stick to the script.

And again I argue that just having the knowledge isn't enough.

Would you do this @ThisOchreShaker if you had the knowledge?
Or is there perhaps also a layer of character involved on top of the knowledge?

Probably a bit of both. I think part of what I’m getting at is that seeing the system clearly doesn’t always mean you’re in a position to exploit it, sometimes it just makes the game harder to see.

But I also think gumption can be built. The people who win aren’t always the smartest or kindest - they’re the ones who know when to stop playing fair and start playing smart.

So yeah… painful knowledge, maybe. But also increasing awareness that principles don’t always scale, power does.

I try to spot patterns - so I’ll watch the results when I try something and put effort into the things that work. I suppose that’s working the system, in a way…

So weird! I was just thinking this earlier today!

Neither DH nor I are particularly hard working. I think he’s quite talented at what he does (I don’t really understand it) and I reckon I’m bang average at what I do. We’re both extremely successful in our fields. I’ve sort of gently failed upwards for 15 years in a way that is in no way commensurate with the effort I’ve put in.

I don’t know any loopholes or hacks, but I have always instinctively known how things ‘worked’ in a way that it sometimes seem a lot of people don’t. I’ve worked with incredibly talented and hard working people who have never (and will never) progress particularly far in their careers because they think small, get in their own way and don’t understand what you’ve accurately termed the ‘unspoken rules of social and professional life’. It’s a shame.

Are you defining success purely in money terms?

People are always trying to tear down anyone successful aren’t they and find nefarious reasons for that success, it can’t just be having a good idea and then working hard to bring it to life or working hard to get to the top of a profession. There always has to be something that people can use to justify why someone else is successful and not them.

(To clarify I am not what I or anyone else would consider a successful person but I know that I don’t like to push myself out of my comfort zone, the successful people I know really push themselves and that is what I think makes the difference).