Disproportional parking fines

[NameChangeParkingProblem]

Feeling frustrated and need to vent. I’ve received multiple parking fines that feel excessive, and honestly, I’m barely holding it together.

First, the Dartford Crossing, which is £1 each way. I drove over the bridge for a holiday trip with my children, and made a mental note to pay later. I hadn’t given it thought prior to the trip, as I didn’t realise it was chargeable over and above road tax. By the time we got to the camping site, I totally forgot about the road fine. There was no payment barrier as there is for the Birmingham bypass.

Another is from picking up a friend from the train station. She had used public transport and had luggage which she couldn’t bring all the way to the car park, even with my help (heavy and she hurt her leg on the journey). I left her at the station and drove to the taxi rank to be able to put her luggage in my car. Then got a parking fine of £170.

Two other ones from broken payment machines, both of which I called the phone number on the machine and left a message. I missed the 14 day response deadline for both, because I’m super busy working full time while being here for my children. I really honestly don’t have time to prepare a defence, on top of everything else. So both attracted a £80 fine each.

I accept that I didn’t follow the rules and that the fines are legitimate. However, it’s just exhausting to try to get about life, and the fines themselves are very high.

Am I being unreasonable that parking fines are not proportionate? If so, can someone in government please take note, as I’m sure that there are many more people dealing with this. My salary isn’t high enough to support this, so I now tell friends to get a taxi; I don’t go out as much, etc.

Yes, the signs are so visible that if you missed them, I'm not sure you should be driving.

Sympathy about the broken machines. There should be no need to use an app to pay for parking, you should be able to pay online, or ideally at a working machine by credit/debit card.

The taxi rank to me should be points on your licence not a fine in my opinion, so you can have your day in court and plead your case if you wish.

Seriously, there are signs everywhere!

but you also say this, @NameChangeParkingProblem

I drove over the bridge for a holiday trip with my children

So unless you weren't aware of the Dart Charge (which is fair) then you would have known in a way that this was en route.

Anyways I feel like I'm veering into being difficult and I don't mean to -

My suggestion (if helpful) is to try and pre-plan where you're going and look up any tolls. But also if you're this way inclined, you can use Siri or equivalent to remind you.

I press a steering wheel button to do it while driving, but my sister uses a phone cradle with her car and she can legally then press the button and do the same. As long as you're not holding the phone handset in your hand while driving of course!! then you can make that reminder happen on the post. * *

If you use waze, you can ask it to give both toll and toll free routes.

They’re only disproportionately large if you firstly don’t pay, then secondly don’t respond within the states timeframe. Most (all) parking fines are much lower if you pay quickly so not having time (being bothered) to get round to it meaning you pay more, I think you can put down as a self inflicted loss.

As someone who's never used the Dartford crossing, I wouldn't have known in advance to pay, but forgetting after the fact is on you. It's also never going to be acceptable to park in a taxi rank.

I'm sorry it's all come at once but they're high for a reason. They're supposed to be a deterrent.

So you're super busy, and didnt get round to paying your fines?

We're all busy, but most of us manage

I agree with you - modern life is challenging. You’ve got to be permanently switched on to not inadvertently get fined or in some other trouble. Especially when you’re doing your best. My brain isn’t wired that way and it’s hard work!

If it’s your first time not paying the Dart charge you can ring them and they may well waive it. Happened to a few people I know. You have nothing to lose.

Passed my test at 17, 47 now. Never had a parking ticket. Not one.

Getting an occasional parking fine is not unusual but you kep getting them.
I have had 3 that I can remember in over 30 years of driving (and parking). I park in City centres several times a week and manage to not get a fine

On street parking fines are literally going to a fund which benefits the community. The revenues go to local councils and are invested in transport related services.

Road tax is not allocated to be spent on roads, as we do not generally have hypothecated taxes in the UK. Vehicle tax goes into the common tax pot, and may be spent on anything the government funds - e.g. health, education, benefits. So it is not reasonable for me to assume taxing my car means even public roads are proportionately maintained.

The toll section of the M6 was not publicly funded and the tolls go to the private body which built and maintains it. So separate from road tax.

I may be fortunate, but in my area it takes less than 5 minutes to pay a parking fine online (from experience...), which is not a big time outlay to prevent the fine escalating.

As others have said, parking fines need to be significant in order to have any deterrent effect. Otherwise they would simply be premium parking charges, and we could all gamble whether the original charge was worth paying at all.

Most major bridges and tunnels have had tolls for 50 years!
The first time I crossed at Dartford I forgot to pay. I received a letter saying as it's a first offence, pay within seven days. Sorted.

Presumably you used some sort of route anber. They tell you where toll roads are.

There are signs on the approach to and after the crossing re Dartcharge over several miles!

The Dartford Crossing isn't just a road though is it? It's a bridge and a tunnel. Similarly to the Humber Bridge, Second Severn Crossing, Tyne Tunnel, Tamar Bridge, Mersey Tunnels, M6 Toll, there's a toll. It's part of the funding mechanism for their construction and maintenance of these "extra ordinary" structures. There is no assumption that all uk roads are free to use, especially major river /estuary crossings.

ok you've lost me now

you're old enough to have children and you've never heard of a road in england needing payment? it's not that unusual.

I also don't get your explanation about your friend - you were picking her up from the station but you put her luggage in your car and drove off without her to the taxi rank? Why didn't she get in as well if the whole reason you were there was to pick her up? How much luggage did she bring with her on the train that the two of you combined couldn't carry it? £170 does sound like an absolutely massive fine but presumably that's to detract people from doing exactly what you did.

You had 14 days to pay or appeal both the other 2 so they are completely on you. You're too "super busy" to spend 5 minutes writing an email to save yourself £160 but not too busy to get on MN to moan about it? If you had evidence (e.g. screenshot of you phoning them to say the machine was broken or just a photo of it) they'd have probably wiped them, so it's just silly not to.

How did you get one, and then still not think 'shit another fine and I've just remembered I didn't pay the first one right I'm going to sort this one right now or I'll miss this one too!'

If three separate fines weren't enough to make you sort yourself out then it's funny you're still arguing they are too high - clearly they're not or, as everyone else has said, you wouldn't have got the fourth!

I agree OP. We are now in a situation where local councils set up more and increasingly complex systems to fine people to make up for the fact they are struggling as they’ve not been able to increase council tax sufficiently for many years

We also now live in a society where technology makes it easier to monitor people so we are using that to issue more and more fines.

The rules to avoid being fined are getting harder and more difficult to follow and often don’t take into how account human brains work (perhaps deliberately) in that sometimes they don’t allow you enough time to process information before making an error which results in you being fined.

I had no problem with fining people for blatantly and deliberately breaking rules, but what we seem to have moved towards is a state where the minute you make a mistake you are fined which feels to me quite unpleasant society to live in. I can only see this getting worse as technology improves unfortunately. It’s all a bit dystopian.

Read the OP. She said she saw the sign but forgot afterwards.

Are you sure you should be driving 😜

Oh come on, in which of OPs scenarios did she
"not have enough time to process information before making an error which results in being fined"?

That argument might work if she was caught in a yellow box grid, or accidentally drove in a bus lane or something, but not in any of the examples here.

She didn't have any issue in "processing" that she needed to pay for the DC, she just forgot to do so.

With the second, she didn't accidentally drive into the taxi rank or not realise what it was, she knew it was there and that she wasn't a taxi, but decided to use it anyway.

With the last two, she didn't make an error when actually parking, if the machines were broke there was nothing else she could have done - she was charged because she took more than 14 days (TWICE!) to "process the information." That's not a split second error.

If you take more than a fortnight to "process" that you need to contest a fine if you don't want to pay it (after already incurring three other fines within a short period) then you probably shouldn't be driving. Or allowed out unaccompanied.

I wasn’t talking about the OPs specific instances. I was talking generally. I think there are too much fining, too much complexity and too much punishing people for genuine errors. I don’t know enough about the details of why the op was fined (was there adequate signage, was it confusing or presented too late etc etc) to comment on the specifics.

Can someone in government please take note that you don't like it when there's a consequence when you repeatedly do the things they're trying to avoid people doing?

Is it anyone else's fault you think you're above the rules and full of 'excuses' that are just very normal everyday circumstances and in no way exceptional or particularly challenging to manage alongside basic expectations?

Why did you post when you KNOW you aren't in the wrong?

The risk with that is number plate cloning - depressingly common in urban areas.

I’ve twice been victim to this and by not having autopay I was able to get a crime number and challenge the tickets (tedious but the only way to have the fine cancelled) without a penny leaving my bank account. In on case well over £100 would have disappeared from my account within 48 hours and I’m unusual in watching my accounts fairly closely.

I’d happily use a peage token within the car but definitely no autopay for urban charges.

I would support a sizeable honour for anyone who can unify the seven or eight parking apps needed to perform the exact same function in different car parks/charge areas.