Dad's body stuck in hospital.

[Sugargliderwombat]

So my dad died on Saturday.

He has a mad family and so listed me and one of them as next of kin so I didn't have to deal with them all during his death. All his words he's quite distant from them.

The ward never updated the system properly, just kept it as a note for their ward.

He died alone in A&E on Monday after being discharged by palliative care.

Somewhere along the way an uncle with limited mobility who, apparently, is mostly stoned has ended up as next of kin, definitely an error as my dad was too breathless and confused to really talk and my mum confirmed with the ward the day before that I was still listed.

My dad died alone because my phone number wasn't on the system.

When the nurse called my uncle to say he was dying he said he was going to have some tea and come up, never did.

The issue is now they won't issue me the medical certificate, just this stoned uncle who wasn't bothered but now suddenly wants to collect it. I've no idea why but it means we can't register the death or begin funeral arrangements becaye of this.

What can I do?! Surely the ward has notes that I was next of kin? The Dr got permission from my dad but obviously didn't do any proper admin with it.

True - but it would be on the medical records, so that could be corrected even after the event.

You could contact the registrars office directly and expaln that you are the next of kin and ask if they can help you by booking and appointment. You can’t still need further information from the hospital as you weren’t present at the time of death. No one will want this to be left hanging if the uncle isn’t capable of restoring the death and sorting paperwork.
mom so sorry for your loss.

I may be wrong but if there's no will don't intestacy rules apply when arranging a funeral, was dad married to your mum.

Thank you so much everyone, got a good few ideas to try tomorrow.

No I wasn't power of attorney. By the time he went to hospital he was so sick he hadn't sorted anything like that. Only found out he had cancer a couple of weeks ago :(.

A lady on his old ward was very helpful but said there was no record of me ever being next of kin, I know palliative care had approached them to make sure it didn't happen again but it seems someone may have gone back and edited it, if that's possible.

Someone mentioned pals, they haven't been able to help just advised me to lodge a formal complaint as its part of a wider issue of care. He was sent home without the correct pain relief or care plan and the 24 hour emergency response nurses didn't come. Hence the ambulance and then A&E as the paramedics could not find the information they should have been given.

Wanted to send you some hugs. I am so sorry x

Do you have any more info on this? I thought that If they have the medical certificate they register the death and then they are the ones who instruct the funeral people, I'm not sure how we can control that chain of events?

Next of kin if you are married is normally your spouse. Your first couple of sentences dont make sense. Did your Dad name you and an uncle as next of kin? Obviously the hospital think it was just your uncle.

If there is no will intestacy rules apply. That means your mother inherits (and maybe children if he was very wealthy) and therefore pays for the funeral. If the uncle wants to take over does he realise he'll be paying funeral costs and your mother/ you have no obligation o pay a penny?

https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

If he tries to arrange anything else find out who the funeral director is and inform them uncle has no authority.

OP sorry for your loss. I would certainly check your dad definitely updated his next of kin properly before blaming hospital. If it turns out that he did, you should seek legal action against the hospital IMO.

why did palliative care discharge him if he was so unwell? Did he walk out himself?

This is dependant on whether he listed anyone else as next of kin before his death and forgot to change it. If someone else is legally listed next of kin on her dads choice, they remain next of kin.

A pp noted the medical certificate is all online now and forwarded to the registrar.
In which case I would

• make an appointment with the registrar and if I were you bring along my birth certificate.
• I had the actual document from the hospital but didn’t have to prove who I was. I just told them I was their daughter. This was in 2013 and 2014.

If it’s automatically sent these days they already have it
so book an appointment tomorrow first thing and get there first. That’s what I would do.

It’s worth noting
you Don’t need to be named as registering the death to arrange a funeral
The funeral parlour don’t cross check this although given the confusion with the hospital I think the bigger issue here is not who arranges the funeral but more
who has authority to release your fathers body from the hospital.

https://www.forbessolicitors.co.uk/articles/funeral-and-burial-disputes-who-has-the-final-say-with-or-without-a-will

This sets out who has priority of decisions about the body after a death if there is no will.

It would appear to be his wife, and if none, then his children. Although it refers to ‘next of kin’ I think this is just a short hand for going through the list of familial relationships in order.

If there is a serious dispute, particularly between people with the same relationship to your Dad (eg between you and your siblings) then the court may need to get involved.

What happens if like this lady’s father he’s listed his brother as his next of kin?

What happens if like this lady’s father he’s listed his brother as his next of kin?

Surely if there's no will, no executor then the first person would be his wife then children, nok has no legal definition.

Next of kin for a hospital is who takes medical decisions for you if you are not able to do so and who they will contact if they need help discharging you. But once you are dead who decides what happens to your body is either est out in your will or determined by intestacy rules.

As I understand it, whilst a living person can tell a hospital who to treat as ‘next of kin’ normally meaning who to keep updated etc, it doesn’t have a legal meaning. For example, a Power of Attorney would trump a ‘next of kin’ whilst the person was alive if it came to decisions.

Similarly, whilst in a practical sense the hospital may say ‘I need to deal with the next of kin’ after a death, what they are meaning is ‘this is the person my computer tells me to deal with’. This is not the legal position. Legally, after death, the decisions lie with executors if there is a will, and personal representatives if there is not a will. There is a hierarchy of who can be personal representatives which is detailed in the link earlier.

There have been disputes that have reached the courts and a few are summarised in this link:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/104314

Next of kin do not make medical decisions, that would be power of attorney in discussion with the doctors. They can help with discharge planning but if a patient is unable then its power of attorney or the court of protection.

I understand. I wonder how this works if said person has gone NC with all their family. Presumably their will trumps everything else legally.

It sounds very upsetting, mostly because you weren't contacted towards the end, how did he get to a&e, was he at home.

Yes if there's a will there will be executors

Just to thank everyone - I took every suggestion I could and today a Dr gave my sister a direct line to the bereavement office who had previously refused to speak to me and my name is now miraculously next of kin....

Someone had obviously messed up and corrected it. Who knows which route worked but thank you.

@MissMoneyFairy While you are technically correct - that's the legal position where there is disagreement - I have been involved in medical decisions for relatives. The doctor(s) want to know you are not going to sue them over their decisions because they dont want to spend time in court unless absolutely necessary. So they tend to do what you want as long as it is defensible as being in the best interests of the patient.

I’m glad this has happened but I would be so so cross with the hospital, their cockup is the reason you didn’t get to see your dad. I know you’ve got a lot on but I would honestly consider taking legal action. This is the sort of thing which should never happen again.

@Sugargliderwombat so sorry for your loss and the extra stress. Pleased to hear it is resolved.

Please do report it to PALS though. It will be the thing furtherest from your mind right now, but it does help improve systems if things like this can be logged.