To think protest and activism doesn't, for the most part really change anything?

[colta]

I have been involved with activism Gaza for since 2023. Full disclosure I am of mixed Irish Catholic and Lithuanian Jewish heritage. I was horrified at October 7th and then even more horrified at the Israeli government's response. I have attended protests, written letters, donated and did whatever I thought I could to end the genocide. I feel now that nothing I personally can do will change anything. Israel will not even listen to its own people's cries to end this madness and brutality.

I have a friend who's marriage broke down because of her involvement in this activism because she was at the point she was rarely at home or their for her 3 relatively young children. She now lives in a squat and rarely sees her children at all and has essentially lost everything. I admired her dedication and passion but also I think she's paid too high a price and achieved basically nothing for it.

I think this is how I am feeling now that protesting doesn't do much unless its in the interests of those in power to make that change anyway. Netanyahu will keep committing his war crimes for his own personal gain propped up by warmongers and religious extremists, unchallenged by impotent and complicit foreign governments, until it suits them all to stop.

This is the way of the world, individual people have very little power, you vote for change but the same people remain in power, you say no they do it anyway. I am not saying we do nothing of course people should still fight and help where they can but ultimately its unlikely we can change things, especially in relation to world events, I can see how activism might encourage a change in public opinion in a particular country but even then look at environmental campaigning most people would agree now we need to change our ways, protect the environment and yet emissions continue to go up and up and nature continues to be destroyed. I am sure there are some exceptions but for the most part we are pretty powerless.

YANBU - Protest doesn't change things
YABU - Protest / Activism does change things and is worth making any sacrifice for.

It doesn't work until it does

But it can take years

But does it really work or does it just come to a time where it suits the people with power to change things? I am not advocating stopping fighting for what you believe in, I intend to keep fighting for the things I believe in as I have done all my life but a life time of activism has left me sceptical about its effectiveness, it makes me feel better to do something but I am not sure it actually changes anything.

The suffragettes?

There are so, so many examples of how activism changed things for the better. In fact, ALL social changes have come about because of activism. Those in power always, always have to be pushed into changing things. It’s the nature of power. This includes war too.

I don’t think it does much at all. It makes the protesters feel less impotent though.

It's very difficult to do anything that can help in these situations, so protesting feels like you’re helping in some way, even if it doesn’t.

You’re absolutely right that change happens when those in power are ready for it. And they are ready for it when they realise there is too much resistance for them to carry on as things are. Resistance= activism

It does change things.

suffragettes, gay marriage, etc.

protesting against wars that your state is not involved in is a different category though. Governments don’t generally care that much about public opinion in other countries.

Ghandi and Rosa Parks politely disagree.

@ARainyNightInSoho Perhaps although their are others who argue that the activities of the suffragettes and their direct action actually hindered women's suffrage.

I think this is what I am really getting at, we can probably make an impact on public opinion and therefore our own governments and policy in our own countries about cultural issues or legalities such as gay marriage. However when it comes to things like war, genocide in other countries, nuclear arms (which is what I spent a lot of my younger years campaigning against) it doesn't seem to make any difference at all unless we as a country are prepared to go to war ourselves.

I can see how climate change protests help, but climate change and emissions and that are things you can change as an individual. You can buy a bike and sell a car, you can grow a garden or set up a pond.

I don't see how protesting in England is going to change anything for Gaza. The average person can't go and tell someone "stop this war", however they can sign up to Who Gives a Crap.

So I see what you mean, I don't think protesting helps with stuff overseas but I do think it can spark changes here in England. (or America or wherever you are from)

Climate change ones I think are really good because it gets you chatting to like minded people and you sort of need a network for that.
Everyone already agrees war is bad and poor, innocent civilians shouldn't be bloody killed or starved, very few people think they should be so those kind of protests make me think those kids are just up for a shout and a laugh.

Great point.

Campaigning against something happening in another country absolutely does make a difference. It’s crucial to those resisting the situation in that country. If they feel other people care and recognise it’s wrong that is a hugely empowering thing and makes a big difference to how much effort they put into resisting.

Yes but....in the UK the only protest I remember having a real effect was the one about Poll Tax under Thatcher. In the early 70s and onwards there were any number of marches about issues, from the miners to the Iran war. Don't recall any having any effect so I did a little research.
Most important factors in protest movements:

1. Nonviolent tactics
2. Favourable sociopolitical context
3. Large numbers of participants

Research showed that factors largely outside the Social Movement Organisation’s control – things like pre-existing public opinion, supportive elites, media environment, and luck – play a big part in determining the success of a protest movement. Source The Commons Social Change Library.

@changetheworldshallwe I agree we can make individual changes and I have and everyone should but any changes we make are dwarfed by the damage done by industry, if you haven't seen the trajectory of the science it is not pleasant reading, many already think it is too late to stop apocalyptic levels of climate change.

It depends on the type of protest and activism.

My daughter is a really dedicated environmental campaigner in her own right - she gives talks, lives a waste-free life and has a YouTube channel in which she demonstrates all kinds of approaches to being 'greener', but she had no time at all for Extinction Rebellion. Are they still going? She even wondered at one point if they were some kind of subversive group set up to discredit the environmental movement and generally alienate people.

I think groups like that are counter-productive, as is Just Stop Oil now. I know these issues are very important but pissing people off to the extent of stopping emergency vehicles getting through is not on, and such activists deserve to fail.

Totally.

So often I've felt my own domestic attempts at being greener (I won't bore you here but I'm an extreme re-cycler and practise Victorian levels of miserliness with electricity, heating etc) are futile in the face of what corporations and institutions are doing every day.

Why does every office block in cities have to be lit up through the night?

When I was a teacher I remember my Head telling us all to stop sorting through stuff - time was precious - and just throw everything in the skip at the end of one term: new unused books, packs of paper, art materials - you name it. Very disheartening. And the NHS is extremely wasteful too, because again, when time is short, you just take the easy way - I understand that.

Some causes more than others.
Older ongoing issues are too complex to tackle with activism. They require long term education and careful diplomacy.

It works. We wouldn't have the Climate Change Act. Abolition of Slavery, Women's Rights Movement gained significant rights for women. Anti-war - Vietnam. LGBTQ+ rights. Why do you think that oppressive governments want to shut activism and protests down? Or why Amnesty International has been declared an 'undesirable organisation' in Russia? Because they call those in power to account.

I think there’s a middle way between your two options. Activism can change things, but normally only very slowly over time as the idea becomes more mainstream and accepted, and then eventually politicians have to listen to the weight of public opinion. That’s what happened with gay marriage , suffragettes , abolishing slavery, ect. It’s never going to cause a road to Damascus moment where the rest of the world suddenly wakes up one day and decides to make a change.

So it is worth doing, but definitely not worth abandoning your children for and living in a squat. You can have more impact being involved occasionally alongside a normal life than just becoming a dedicated activist who puts people off engaging at all.

Protests about nuclear definitely had an impact.

some of the internal U.K. government papers from the 70s/80s are now accessible and they did have an impact.

Also all the nuclear non proliferation treaties.

not so much civilian nuclear if that’s what you mean although these days everyone loves it due to climate change.

The OP wasn't specifically talking about the UK but you're forgetting the Match girls strike, the Ford Dagenham activists which led to the Equal Pay Act, the Ruskin College, Oxford conference and their key demands, the various Women’s Lib marches and groups which organised refuges, domestic violence law and family planning hubs.

Various environmental groups, anti fox hunting and animal rights, social activism, loads has been changed.

I know how you feel OP. I've been donating money, writing to my MP and MSP, signing petitions, posting online etc. about Gaza for months and it seems to change nothing. But I have to do it just for the sake of preserving my own humanity.

I’m having the same thoughts at the moment. I would do anything to stop the slaughter over there but it’s still happening 😢 I think targeted economic boycotts can work. But in regards to fossil fuels and the weapons industry they are so entrenched in the global economy it’s hard to target them effectively. I go to rallies or events for Gaza most weeks and it’s really disheartening to see it does nothing. But at least I can hold my head somewhat high and say I never supported the genocide and was doing what I can. I really wish I knew a solution. Unfortunately a lot of people don’t care

You are quite right, I was relying on dodgy memory.

The Suffragettes were terrorists really. They planted bombs and killed people. They were not popular and turned people off the cause. The Suffragists campaigned on the same cause, but not violently.

WWI was the reason women and working class men got suffrage. You can't send men to war and call them heroes and send women to factories and then say they can't vote.