discipline at primary schools

[hnkjuijn]

Was wondering whether things work the same way at other primary schools. Our school already insists on children walking silently up and down the corridors. They have now introduced that kids cant put their hand up to ask a question but must make another sign. They also have to sign if they want to say something to another child about the work they are doing. Basically kids have to be silent for six and half hours a day unless spoken to. Is this really the norm elsewhere?

@BrakingBroken don't have Progress 8 in Primary

Have they explained why the kids can't put their hands up and have to touch their noses instead?

Did they actually say they are expected to stay quiet all day and how are they enforcing it?

This doesn’t sound normal.
Oracy is massive on the agenda of many schools now, so much talk, debate and discussion.
When you say “the school” told you this is what they do, who exactly was it who said that?

I expect other people in my office to be quiet so I can work. That's what these children are being expected to do. Seems fair enough to me.

Is there evidence to show movement helps child behaviour? I only ask as I notice zero difference in behaviour if my kids have had an active day versus chill day. I think kids are ok sitting and learning. The fingers on noses sounds a bit silly, as it may be hard to see when teaching. I agree with silence in halls and I’m sure the kids can and will talk in class.

Basically kids have to be silent for six and half hours a day unless spoken to
They aren't allowed to speak at play time?

They currently only have one 15mins break and 45mins for lunch - that doesnt seem like enough over the course of six and a half hour day.

I agree with you OP.

Thing is, there is SO much wrong with how we 'do' education in the UK (all nations). It's a model that belongs in the Victorian era in all sorts of ways, e.g. the calendar, term times, school day, exams, etc. I just wish politicians would have the imagination to step up with some more radical solutions. That's asking a lot, though, isn't it.

By that takes me back to the start of my career in teaching. I had an older teacher headed for retirement as my mentor. She taught me an awful lot of excellent strategies. One of the things she insisted on was fingers on lips😂. I was never a fan of that particular strategy myself. As for a finger on the nose! With my eyesight I would never have noticed which child wanted to speak! It’s probably the arm wavy/shouty out type of hands up they are trying to avoid. I do believe children should move quietly around the school corridors.

Many schools are moving away from hands up because people are saying that it’s distracting for other child who are still trying to think of the answer, other children just give up trying to work out the answer if they see lots of hands already up, hands up stops teacher being able to see the faces of children sitting behind etc. I’ve been in many schools recently moving towards a ‘thumbs up’ or a finger on the nose approach to let your teacher know you have something to share. This is a non-issue really, as a PP said it’s just hands-up done in a different way and if I’m honest I have seen it implemented very effectively. Children do tend to just give up thinking of an answer the minute they see other children waving their hand about to be chosen. Finger on the nose is much more discreet etc.

However, no talk at all during work is very sad. I agree for periods of the day this makes sense for children to complete fully independent tasks but all day whilst working is so very sad.

What kind of school is this @hnkjuijn? Academy? LA maintained? Independent? Free school? It’s certainly not how any of the (many, mostly LA maintained) primaries round here operate, thankfully!

It's an academy though by now arent like half the primaries academies.

I think to judge it fairly we really need to know what exactly the school said. Have they explicitly said the children need to be silent for the full time they are in class and is it all through the years or is it built up as they progress year to year.

Honestly there is a world of difference between a child putting their hand up and a child whose hand is in the air who is almost leaping out of their seat to be chosen, waving their hand around, making noises and it does discourage a lot of children who take longer to work out the answer. I have also seen a child with their hand in the air catching the eye of anyone who would look at them saying, "It's 23, 23" nodding their head.

Silence in corridors is useful if you have children on staggered breaks too. Classes are still working when the children are walking past and them making noise is a distraction too. We have re-routed children through school so they do not walk past the classrooms where the children are sitting their SATs too.

I would say that I can see their reasoning for implementing these things. Low level disruption in classes is one of the things that does need to be clamped down on. TAs are not seen as cost effective in a lot of schools, it depends on how their skills are utilised within the classroom. Personally I think they add a lot but I believe EHCP funding doesn't even cover the cost of a one to one TA.

Why on earth have you lobbied an mp about this? Mps are busy fighting for people in need, and who have zero recourse.
The Primary School will offer several channels of communication, but you've sidestepped that?
Also, the school day you mention is pretty standard. 2 lessons, one break, 2 lessons, lunchtime, one lesson then home. You don't need to paint it like a human rights abuse!

Ignore my last post apoligies, misread the mp bit

Don't worry that's not why I got in touch with my MP. Am not totally insane. I was just wondering whether other schools also have such behaviour rules in their classrooms.

This is really not normal. First I would check the behaviour policy on the school's website. If this doesn't align with what your child is telling you, you will need to ask the senior leadership team (SLT) if this is a new policy or just one particular teacher. If it is a single teacher, complain. If it's the new school policy, move your kids to another school. They are not going to learn successfully if they are feeling anxious all day.

So what are the actual rules?
They have to give a sign when they wish to speak in class - normal.
They are asked to be quiet when moving through corridors? - fairly common in a lot of schools
So far I don’t have an issue.
Are they allowed to talk at a reasonable volume whilst working? At least some of time. Or are you really saying that a letter from school has told you that the children will not be allowed to talk except at break times?
Most classes will enforce quiet working at least some of the time. They will all expect silence whilst individuals are talking. Whether that is an adult or a child. This would obviously be ridiculous. I don’t know any teacher who would work like this.
TAs cost money many schools don’t have.
And anyone who can write that they’re ’worse than prison’ has clearly never been to prison.