To think nurseries should be havens of hygiene and safety?

[JaneEyre40]

Looking for a nursery for a one year old (he's currently 4 months old). New and first time parents do probably over protective. Viewed some nurseries today and can't help but find something wrong with each of them (reviews online for both are very good).

The outside space in one was tiny, had broken wooden steps that the children played on and steel looped spikes sticking out of the bannister.

Am I being unreasonable to think that the outside space should be completely safe and devoid of any possibility for injury? Obviously I get that children will always find ways to injure themselves.

I agree that they should be safe.
Hygiene is tricky with lots of kids though. Relatively clean, nothing awful.

I don’t think that’s possible. Not with small children.

you’d need to completely clear the area and the whole point is to have water/sand/mud kitchens and work on gross motor skills.

Btw don’t try forest school.

Our outside area has stacked tyres for climbing, wooden stuff and loose parts for play, they are encouraged to build climbing apparatus etc. Obviously rusty nails sticking out of beams etc isn’t good, but risk-taking in a safe environment is part of learning, so mud, dirt, climbing on stuff, is all part of it. Sometimes they fall over, bang heads, all that stuff. Just like at home.

Hygiene, yes very important around food, but the place will ebb and flow with how clean floors etc are during the day depending on activities taking place, the weather. General shabbiness or dirty general feel is different to a well cared for setting that is a bit messy or dirty at a specific part of the day due to activities.

it’s becoming broadly recognised that we’re raising an anxious generation by not letting them take risks. Children’s play areas should have facilities where they can take risks without injuring themselves too badly.

The occasional scraped knee and banged head are essential learning experiences.

Nurseries are generally filthy, but they should be physically safe.

A childminder is likely to be cleaner as people tend to like living in clean houses!
But for a nursery I would massively reduce expectations, in will be grubby and surface cleaned only.

Broken equipment is not ok at all but children will be allowed to crawl, run and climb around outside with much less supervision than you would do at home, no one will be hovering over them.

Thank you all, it did just seem like day to day mess. However, the outside broken wooden steps and steel looped nails sticking out really did concern me (they could take an eye out if the child fell/splinters from the broken wood). Genuinely not being a diva, I spent my childhood running around fields and climbing trees.

Do you think I could say, we'd love for baby to attend however we did have a little concern about the outside space?

Keeping children in an environment that is ‘devoid of any possibility of injury’ would be actively detrimental to their development and any nursery attempting it would be criticised by OFSTED for not providing enough risk taking opportunities. Early years education includes teaching children to manage risk, which can’t be done when there is none.

I can’t picture what you mean with the looped nails, or how the steps are broken, so can’t say if they are justifiable or not. They may or may not be.

It is the broken wood and nail I am concerned about not obvious toys etc.

Picture a nail with a circular loop on on top which a little string is threaded through (presumably the children hold the string when walking down the steps).

Childminder. All day long. Home from home, clean.....

This is 80% of them and sounds normal. The other 20% are probably full till 2027 at least.

I’d just look elsewhere. If it’s as bad as you describe they’ll be slacking in other areas too. If you are that worried you could also tip Ofsted off

A pen could take an eye out. Are you going to stop your child using those, too? You do them no favours trying to find the hazards in every situation. Watch a Final Destination film - literally anything can pose a threat.

Quite honestly the most dangerous part of their nursery attendance is likely to be the car journey there and back.

Really?! I was thinking about this.

Safe absolutely within the bounds of PP very good points about learning.

Hygienic, I’m not so sure about. Unfortunately the only way to make them hygienic would be to ban all children in particular the younger toddler type persons as they are quite literally riddled.

I say this as a mother, a paediatric health professional and self confessed devout lover of all toddlers and young children. They are unfortunately the least hygienic things on the planet.

Great point, this comment and others is exactly what I need. I think having a baby made me look at everything differently.

Their reviews are good, over 50 reviews giving 5 stars...so maybe I am over thinking it.

It seems you may be over thinking it, but you have your first four month old and at that stage it seems very hard to imagine them as toddler or preschooler who can do all sorts of things.

I think I understand what you mean about the metal loops, but it sounds like they are just a hard thing that would do the same amount of damage as any other hard thing in the right set of circumstances.

Visit childminders as well as nurseries if you can and see if you can find somewhere that you feel comfortable with. The most important thing is that you trust the people who will be looking after your baby.

Broken bits of wood with sharp metal sticking out is fair.

But, ‘to think that the outside space should be completely safe and devoid of any possibility for injury?’ No. Kids need to learn what is safe and where their limits lie. It’s one of the things they do. They also get hurt sometimes. Though kids are also pretty robust! Being overly anxious and not letting them take risks is absolutely natural, but ultimately it doesn’t help them, it just makes them anxious too!

Equally too an overly clean and tidy nursery often means that children aren’t being given the opportunity to play and make things.

What you want from a nursery is a glorious, slightly messy, noisy place, filled with fun and pictures and pine cones and such on the walls. A place for children to explore and grow. Things to climb and ride and get messy in, whilst surrounded by engaged staff who understand limits.

Hygiene, equally, is a difficult one. Food hygiene, absolutely. Shit every where, absolutely not. Paint and and and a bit of mud, great. And, as someone who’s finally through the worst, nursery will mean you and your baby get absolutely every cold and bug going for the first 12 - 18 months. But that too is good as it’s how their immune systems build. Though it’s also complete hell!

I’ve a friend who hasn’t sent her children to nursery. Mixture of her on some days and with a nanny when she works. She is incredibly proud that her children have ‘never had a days illness in their lives’. I mean that’s clearly an exaggeration, but at the same time all I can think is, ‘just wait until they start school!’

I wasn’t keen on the idea of nursery, as I’d not been and neither had my partner. But we had no choice really. Now, it’s the best thing we did! Our daughter is learning to interact with others, and learning more than we could ever teach her ourselves, not only because nurseries are structured and have ‘lesson plans’, but because the children want to do what the other children do. For instance, we struggled with potty training. Started and failed twice, then suddenly and without our trying to she started it, she began again and got it really quickly. Asked about it at nursery and the nursery told us that about 8 of them had all started at the same time inspired by each other.

Going by the amount of ones I see chatting away in soft play whilst not watching the kids...not always the case. 😬

Broken equipment should be removed.

But injuries can happen. They can happen at home too. Two of my DDs A&E visits happened at home... she was dancing, fell and hit her head on the wall, and she fell off a chair. Neither particularly dangerous activities!

I think clean and tidy isn't possible. I struggle to keep my house tidy through the day with my son so can only imagine what it's like there. Plus the nursery told me the other day they couldn't hoover around my son as he's terrified (he hates loud noises), so they can no longer hoover with him there lol. As for safe, I agree but could be possible that it was broken on that day who knows. The main thing I looked for with nursery was the staff, they are the most important thing to me. My son's loves them and loves going to them and I feel comfortable because of that

For little babies yes

but once they are crawling, walking, toddling - hygiene is over - everything goes in their mouths and they will lick anything

and outdoors cannot be ‘devoid of any possibility of injury’ - it should be risk assessed and safe but they will fall, scrape knees, bite each other, bang heads etc.

Totally disagree.

Basic safety. Basic hygiene - yes.

'Havens of hygiene and safety' - no. There is a point at which too much hygiene and too little risk is actively damaging to a child's health and development.

I'm talking endless bleach and soft corners on tables - too much

Accidents allow children to understand the consequences of their actions and the risks they take.

Illness is a normal and important part of developing their immune system.

Ha! Never been so ill in my life compared to when ds was at nursery. They are mucky germ factories. (Being worried about trip hazards is valid though.)