AIBU to be a little bit hurt by this? (LGBT related)

[GalacticBuscuit]

Hi all,

Ive been thinking about a discussion/meeting I was involved in and wonder if I’m being unreasonable in being a bit hurt/miffed by something.

Firstly, I am a lesbian. I am not really out to anyone other than a few very close friends as I grew up in quite a homophobic environment and I don’t feel I will ever be comfortable being openly out.

I work for a large corporation that trades globally, but which is a British business and is headquartered here.

In a meeting yesterday we were discussing some changes that need to be made to one of our products. One of the changes proposed was that we need to remove any references to LGBT people, as it’s hurting our growth in the Middle East. No one battered an eyelid at this, and it was passed through, in fact one person mentioned that doing this would be good for our global DEI targets as it would be a positive move toward better cultural sensitivity.

I said nothing, but I couldn’t help but feel a little bit hurt by this.

I know I am being unreasonable to compare or play what aboutry, but a little voice in my head whispered, well imagine if there was a region of the world that had a lot of countries with apartheid and segregation, so we need to remove any references to POC from our products. Or imagine a region of the world where they had a strong belief in eugenics, so we needed to remove any positive references to people with disabilities from our products for that region.

Both would be very very rightly shot down. So why do non-heterosexuals always seem to be the expandable minority?

I know it isn’t a competition between minorities, I was just trying to illustrate my thinking.

I’m not going to say anything, I just feel a bit hurt.

For reference, I do mean that it’s being removed from our actual product, not just the marketing or whatever. I don’t want to give away the industry incase it’s outing, but for something similar (but a different sector) imagine a history textbook contained information on key historical figures, but we’ve now decided that two of them are being cut because they were openly gay/lesbian/bi and the market in certain parts of the world doesn’t want material that represents these people in a positive light…

sorry for the rant. It has helped just getting this off my chest.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but the Equality Act doesn’t apply to the ME!
The OP isn’t being discriminated against here, the company has decided to ensure their product sells in a global market.

I can see why you are hurt, but you are naive to think that businesses genuinely care about staff diversity or ‘bringing your whole self to work’ initiatives. Bottom line is that they will always act on the interest of profits and maximising their business opportunities. I know you don’t want to say what the product is, but is the sexuality of the historical figures analogy you used relevant to the particular product in any way?

I think you have to sell your soul when you work for in a working culture like this.
I know I did.

You need to understand what discrimination is and this isn't it, distasteful though it may be.

The trouble is that all these businesses claiming to support/promote certain groups or principles, are only doing so in order to appeal to the marketplace.
I doubt they actually care that much. They are just making the right noises.
Unfortunately you believed the company you are working for really cares. They don't.
But what is disappointing here, is the reaction of individuals during the meeting. It sounds like some of them don't care either way but I suspect a lot of individuals are simply towing the line in order to keep their jobs because that's how it works in big corporations.
OP I am not surprised you feel this way. Experience has taught me not to believe anyone or anything from big businesses.
I bet your company has an impressive CO2 reduction plan which has been incredibly successful and will become even better. But nobody can actually prove that because in reality it is not worth the paper it is written on.

The meeting wasn't in the ME though. It was here in Britain.

The OP WBU to be "a little bit hurt". I've got the full rage at the OP having to work with the DEI global targets twatbadger.

Are they removing this content universally or only in the ME?

@GalacticBuscuit “I know I am being unreasonable to compare or play what aboutry, but a little voice in my head whispered, well imagine if there was a region of the world that had a lot of countries with apartheid and segregation, so we need to remove any references to POC from our products.”

You’re not being unreasonable at all fwiw. There probably aren’t any visible jews in those same products but if there were I bet they’d be taken out pronto for that same market.

What are you going to do though. Nobody likes being called a hypocrite so it’s unlikely to be worth you attracting any hassle, and the company has to make money and ultimately it’s not actually that important anyway. It is infuriating though, it just shows how bankrupt the whole diversity ethos is, especially when it immediately turns into another way to pat themselves on the back, and nobody has to do any reflection whatsoever. It’s not racist/sexist/etc when we do it, indeed. Absolute bollocks the lot of it.

I get you. The mistake is OP's for believing that bullshit in the first place. Also the inevitable carbon neutral ambitions and any other virtue signalling crap. Its always gonna be ditched if it affects sales.

This is so awful. I am so sorry. I would look into moving to a company with better values.

OP, I'm lesbian and completely understand how you feel. Some pp need to sit and think how quickly they jumped on their own bandwagons rather than have empathy for how you felt at that table.

I can't bear all the corporate pinkwashing, but this is not about that. I don't need my washing powder to feature rainbows and pride month, but to have it axed with no acknowledgment that they are kowtowing to homophobia, and sending a message to everyone in the room that actually equality matters less than profit, is a big deal. Most adult lesbians grew up almost entirely without representations of ourselves, and I think heterosexuals have little idea of how damaging that is.

100%

I know I will sound stupid, but why does your company have to reference sexuality. Does it reference religion, race or weight? Unless the product it delivers is specifically aimed at lgbt+ people why was there any need to reference it in the first place?

Not being goady just at a loss as to why sexuality unless intrinsic to the product is part of the offering? I used to be a gardener, I wouldn't say that I like spam sandwiches as part of my adverts.

What exactly do you think was discrimination?

The meeting was in the UK but a company is entitled to talk about it's global DEI and marketing strategies from the UK.

Your feelings are absolutely valid, and the comparison to other minority groups is also a fair one to make.

I work in an industry where I know exactly the scenario you've just described and the fact is, no amount of moral standing is going to change that market. The company has a choice to either play by their "rules" or they simply don't sell into that market.

So what should the company do?

And then look at the US, where in a matter of months it has become anti-everything, but it's a hugely lucrative and important market where companies have invested and rely on sales there to pay their staff and bills.

People rely on these corporations for their livelihoods so taking the moral option in every scenario is not always going to be feasible. So sell out on its corporate responsibility?

It's just not black and white. You're right on the one hand, absolutely, but do they need to sell in the Middle East? Perhaps they do also. Catch 22.

You told the person in your comment that they couldn't speak for the entire community by removing the T.

I simply said the same thing back to you. You don't speak for all of us either.

Calm down

OP I’m really sorry that you were in that position - can only imagine how you felt.

Whoever said that removing content about gay and lesbian people could be good for diversity, equality and inclusion targets must either have been taking the piss or be so far up the corporate backside he can no longer think straight. The existence of lesbians and gay men is not culturally specific, taking them out of your content can never be culturally sensitive except in the sense of bowing to the culture of homophobic regimes.

In your place I’d be emailing whoever the lead person is on this laying out your concerns. You don’t need to talk about your sexuality as it isn’t relevant to the discussion.

Can I ask is this a profit making company?

It’s hard for me to imagine a product where sexuality was relevant but wasn’t intrinsic, if you see what I mean.

Packaging is always changed to work in the widest context- all our products got renamed to work across more languages for example.

Either the information is relevant or it isn’t.

I’m more concerned about doing business at all with countries where women aren't allowed out unaccompanied, gay people can be executed.

I would consider calling that out. If your employees aren't safely able to travel there, should we do business there?

I don’t blame you.

We live in a time when large corporates and businesses genuflect to Trump and - worse- regimes with appalling human rights records while at the same time earning their woke EDI points by displaying flags and making statements on their webpages. As the Scots say ‘ it’s all fur coat and nae knickers’.

The hypocrisy is sickening but you’ll only lose by pointing it out.

I bet your employer also makes a big song and dance about being inclusive, promoting equality and diversity and displaying rainbow flags all over the place during Pride month.

While at the same time being completely hypocritical when it comes to happily doing business with countries who see being gay as a problem.

I think you just found out what your company really stands for, which is basically profits first, human rights second.

Now it is up to you as to whether you are comfortable or not in this environment.

I think complaining would achieve little unfortunately because they have not said anything directly discriminatory and instead just talked about matching marketing to local bigotry.

I think it would make a nice media investigation though if journalists could look into major UK companies that are vocal about promoting diversity while doing business with countries that criminalise being gay.

You could although send something to relevant journalists and suggest they investigate and say that you will remain anonymous...

There’s a big fuss at the moment about ‘greenwashing’. We need a similar concept and naming and public shaming for businesses that ‘woke wash’ without putting their money where their mouth is!

Because having a hetro couple with a kid on packaging is just as "shoving their sexuallity in your face" as a gay couple.

OP has said it’s not about the marketing but about the product itself. I’m imagining for example it might be a fashion magazine and they’ve been asked to stop interviewing LGBT people, or a YouTube channel and they don’t want to have guests on who are LGBT? Or maybe it’s some kind of training material and some of the case studies are about gay couples?

Yes, I would be really hurt by this - not just by the pragmatic capitalist decision itself, but by the rest of the meeting participants not expressing real regret that the world is like this. I would be hurt to the extent that I would start looking for another job (and check companies I apply to for their LGTB+ track record, inasfar as that is possible). I don’t buy Barilla pasta, for example, because the Italian owner is a notorious homophobe. Life is too short to spend your working hours in that kind of toxic environment.