To be quite dumbfounded about what’s happening in the US?

[delightfuldweeb]

For some reason, my Facebook reels section is currently full of US political stuff. I’ve been very lazy this weekend and have ended up watching absolutely loads of clips of republican senators (or congress? No idea!) being quizzed on “the Big Beautiful Bill” that will cut Medicaid and food stamps.
I’ve seen RFK Jnr and others be quizzed about a report into the health of the population that appears to have been mostly made up and full of conspiracy theories. Then there’s the anti vax stuff of course. The loss of rights for women in bodily autonomy. The ICE stuff, with the director of homeland security either telling mistruths or not actually knowing what’s going on.
I’ve watched doctors talk about their experiences of dealing with insurance companies who won’t cover surgeries/ procedures. Research into MND, cancer, childhood diabetes and dementia has had its funding removed. Then there’s the stuff about Harvard and visas for foreign students / professors.

One of the most shocking was a clip from a “town hall” where someone in the audience shouted “people will die” talking about the Medicaid cuts. The senator just said sarcastically “we’re all gonna die” and smirked. The next day she made a video for Instagram where she didn’t apologise, she doubled down on her sarcasm and said she didn’t realise she’d need to explain to people that everyone dies, and mentioned the tooth fairy?!

Honestly, I knew stuff was bad with Trump. But this stuff has been eye watering!!!! The US is well and truly fucked.

@SpryUmberZebrai would say that RFKjnr is a lot worse than “not perfect”
How can the largest developed nation on earth have a person in charge who is anti-vax? Vaccines are one of the single most important public health measures in history. His beliefs are based on conspiracy and a deep lack of understanding. There is no doubt people will die due to his policies. There have already been deaths due to low MMR uptake.
Some fact checking:
https://www.factcheck.org/person/robert-f-kennedy-jr/

The US is the only developed nation without universal healthcare. Is that not utterly shocking to you?

Plus I’d love to hear your thoughts on Joni Ernst

Many Brits don’t realize how divided the USA has always been - economically, racially and politically. Trump has allowed the right to solidify its position and actually spell out and implement some of the beliefs many already held but didn’t comfortable voicing out loud.

During the next 3.5 years these divisions will likely become deeper and become entrenched. But I am an optimist and hope that the Democrats will finally get their act together and find a good candidate who might actually win the next election. If, on the other hand, it turns out to be JD Vance or someone like him, the damage to the country - and associated implications for major world issues, both political and environmental, will be horrific.

It's certainly interesting. Future social historians will write many PhD Thesises (Theses?) about this. But it's the logical consequence of a capitalist democracy that doesn't temper the capitalist pressures with a careful balance of socialism. With well balanced democracies that incorporate both capitalism and socialism into the centerist ground of public consensus, there are sensible levels of public investment in education and care for those who are vulnerable and can't be economically productive. The USA has a visceral horror reaction to any accusations of socialism and the minimal efforts towards a collectivist approach to collective issues has to be based on either capitalist principles of efficient investment or the vestigial remnants of socialism that have survived into public consciousness from biblical sources (such as Jesus's commandments to feed the poor and tend the sick) - though there's plenty of religious rightwing people who ignore that bit in favour of a "prosperity gospel" theology (God wants believers to be healthy and wealthy, therefore if I am healthy and wealthy it's because I am such a good person and in favour with God, and if you aren't healthy or wealthy you probably deserve that). The result is that there's a critical mass of the population who have the power to elect leaders but do not have the information and understanding of what will be best for them and for the nation as a whole. The number of people who do have the information and understanding of what will be best for them personally and for the nation as a whole is too small to make a difference and the mechanisms of power and control have become vulnerable to capture by oligarchs using the tools of populism and misinformation.

It's too late to turn the juggernaut around. The country is heading into ultimate collapse after a period of dystopian nightmare, and the forces that could have stopped it have already been disarmed.

Things are going to continue to be ok for most people for a while, that's not the issue. The US will not collapse overnight. However the stuff that OP mentions is real and its impact will be felt over the long to very long term. None of it is good news and a lot of it is ethically plain wrong. The thing is, most people in the world live under an authoritarian regime (I think it's something like 72%). Most of the world kind of makes it work for them. Should they though? And should Americans passively accept that this may well be their fate? That's the question.

So for me these are two separate issues: the economy (will tick along, at least for a while, because the country is wealthy enough to absorb the Trump chaos for now) and the constitutional upheaval & its implications. Those won't affect everyone visibly at the same pace.

Many Brits don’t realize how divided the USA has always been - economically, racially and politically.
Yes, some of those divisions go all the way back to the Civil War. Some are more recent. I think the equation goes something like this: old rancors deeply embedded within Southern states + the evangelical right in the Bible Belt + post industrial 'rust belt' working class shafted after the 2008 subprime debacle = MAGA

Is RFK perfect, no, but I never heard Obama or Biden address or try to deal with the known issue of unhealthy food practices in the US and at least he is willing to push food companies in the US to start making much needed changes.

Did you see the clip where he claims McDonalds was good for you when it was fried in animal fat?

Or his views on vaccination?

The USA has a visceral horror reaction to any accusations of socialism

True, but it’s actually much worse. Most Americans aren’t just conservative - they actually equate liberalism with socialism. In many parts of the US being called a liberal is an insult.

I can’t believe that President Trump was allowed to accept that 400 million pound plane from Qatar.
I know they also did other trade deals with them , but it was so blatant that it was trip solely for his own benefit.
I don’t understand much about US politics, but it all sounds a bit of a disaster lately with his tariff policies too. Not sure how he can get away with so much , but he seems to and they all seem to agree with him.

@SpryUmberZebra how will this:
And neither did they address or try to deal with the debt crisis, they kept spending and spending and spending.

Be solved by this:
. Eliminate tax on overtime wages
. Eliminate tax on tips for workers like waiters who earn a signifier chunk of their wages from tips
. Eliminate tax for social security
...plus cutting taxes for billionaires?

Encouraging people to take the bulk of their earnings in overtime and tips rather than from a fixed salary does not help workers. It makes them more vulnerable to exploitation.

Yes pip isn't means tested but loads of people will be unable to leave the house without either their adapted car or the finances for taxis despite what people think not everyone on pip is earning thousands

Please list out the tax cuts for billionaires that you’re claiming.

The bill extends the tax cuts from 2017 which benefitted everyone so I don’t get this billionaire argument, and billionaires are not making their money from salaries hence income tax doesn’t really affect them much, they get hit by capital gains and dividend tax not income tax eg Elon paid $11bn in Federal taxes in 2021 from the sale of Tesla shares and exercising stock options, decrease income tax brackets does nothing for billionaires so this argument makes no sense.

And Trump has also backed extra tax on the ultra wealthy but that is up to congress not the president. I expect the senate will impose some more cuts and they may go with Trump’s proposal but at the moment this is a dance between the House and Senate and Trump is trying to influence things from the White House.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/05/09/trump-top-tax-rate-hike-wealthy-americans.html

• “President Donald Trump is eyeing a tax hike on the wealthiest Americans to fund his spending and tax package.
• The proposal would revert the top 37% income tax rate to 39.6% for individuals making $2.5 million or more per year.
• However, the idea doesn't have support from Republican members of Congress.

“In a phone call Thursday, NBC reported, Trump pressed House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., to raise the top income tax rate on the wealthiest Americans and close the so-called carried interest loophole. ”

The House’s version is not the final bill and I expect changes from the Senate so TBD, and I live in the US and this bill has something for everyone, I know people who can point to direct benefits form this bill compared to Biden’s inflation act bill that spent billions and billions on EV credits trying to force people to adopt EVs and which failed.

I don’t benefit from no tax on overtime and tips but I’m happy for those people to keep more of the money they earn. I benefit from the SALT deduction which will help me offset my state and property taxes, I pay over $13k a year of property taxes in Illinois and yet it keeps increasing and increasing, on top of Federal tax, state tax, Medicaid deduction and social security deduction. And every year the Governor of Illinois and mayor of Chicago come up with new random ways to get more money, now there will be a new $1.50 on any food or order delivery to plug some gap in the budget somewhere due to overspending.

If you’re talking about reduction in corporate taxes I support it because I would rather companies reinvest in the economy and create jobs that have a large government that spends irresponsibly while being very inefficient. As I said in my prior post the Us generated $4.9 trillion last year and yet they still needed to borrow $2 trillion.

Yes the economy was growing over the past few years but it was fueled by government spending funded by debt and the average American can’t point to any direct benefits aside paying more and more taxes.

People taking their earnings in tips and overtime does not make them vulnerable, nothing changes for people already earning tips so they are not any more vulnerable than they are currently and how does overtime pay make employees vulnerable?

You are entitled to your opinion which seems to be influenced by the dislike for Trump but let Americans deal with their issues and face the myriad of issues facing the UK. As things stand I have way more optimism about the US economy than the UK economy which has stagnated for a very long with with low stagnated wages and falling productivity and I haven’t seen anything from the current government that will change things aside fighting over winter fuel allowance and how to increase taxes to continue to plod along.

The changes require able-bodied people to work and remove illegal migrants from the rolls, something both Clinton and Obama did without anyone raising an eyebrow. It changed under Biden and is now being changed back, but a Republican is in power so let's hyperventilate.

Obama was the modern president who deported the most migrants (over 4 million) but Trump wants to deport illegal criminals like the one who firebombed Jews in Colorado yesterday and it's the end of civilization as we know it.

The media is biased and history didn't begin 5 minutes ago. It's all been done before.

@SpryUmberZebra his last round of tax cuts added $2tn to the national debt, and it was the top 5% who benefitted from the vast majority of that. You want to reduce spending? How does $175bn for the "Golden Dome" figure in that? How about tens of millions of dollars for his Soviet-style military parade to celebrate his own birthday? How much is he charging the taxpayer for accommodating his bodyguards at his own golf resort when he goes there to play?

You are entitled to your opinion which seems to be influenced by the dislike for Trump
No, I just recognise a grifter when I see one. The idea that someone who bankrupted multiple casinos will be fiscally responsible is laughable. The idea that someone with a reputation for stitching up contractors going back decades will be helping anyone but himself is ludicrous. He was a laughing stock back in the eighties, yet one reality TV show and ghostwritten book later and some people think that he's a successful businessman.

let Americans deal with their issues and face the myriad of issues facing the UK.
I would mind less if you weren't crashing the global economy in the process. But I've also got friends over there who I care about. They aren't happy.

Trump wants to deport illegal criminals
@LifeExperience how do you know if someone is a criminal if they've never been convicted of any crime? Everyone must have due process, otherwise you could be next and it doesn't matter if you're innocent or not.

They're stopping scientists from publishing in journals. I thought they loved free speech. Were they lying? Say it ain't so.

let Americans deal with their issues and face the myriad of issues facing the UK
Ok, but then keep your fucking nose out of our business and Europe's business and stop trying to push your agenda onto us. No more donations to Farage, to Marine Le Pen, to the AfD, to Nawrocki (what the hell was that about? Kirsti Noem going to Warsaw to tell the Poles they quote 'cannot vote for the other guy'?!)
So yeah, happy to stop banging on about US politics but kindly stay the fuck out. Deal?

Besides, there is the small matter that some of us have business interests, ties past and present, friends, relatives in the US and it's not as simple as just switching off just because we don't happen to live there right now.

We can't stay out if American politics, whatever happens in America affects us all.

"America sneezes and the rest of the world catches the cold"

I do think there’s a real cognitive dissonance. It’s a bit like reform, people don’t think they mean them. We hate immigrants, not me. I’m here legally disabled people they mean the fakers I am legitimately disabled. I work hard they mean the lazy ones blah de blah.

I suspect lots of of the civil servants targeted by doge probably voted for Trump. They didn’t think the cuts meant them. Turkeys voting for Christmas. There are tax cuts for the rich and corporations they need to be paid for they can’t do it with efficiencies so budget for healthcare for education for Social Security will be cut.