Immigration - can someone please explain it to me in simple terms?

[Illbeinthehottub]

So for as long as I can remember I’ve heard that there is a problem with immigration in the UK. There are headlines about it daily and it’s always an issue for government. It’s a big part of what Brexit was about.

I don’t personally understand all about it, what is the issue, is it simply than people feel immigration is putting additional pressure on services?

I’ve just seen another headline saying that Kier Starmer has lost control of the borders.

Conservatives were in power for 13 years, presumably immigration was still unacceptable to people. Now people are unhappy with Labour.

Can someone who understands explain to me a) what is the problem with immigration b) why hasn’t any government been able to have an acceptable policy that works c) is immigration just something for people to whinge about?

We simply should just stop giving it to them then.

That's a point that the 'asylum seekers coming in boats are desperate and fleeing war so stop being so racist' don't have much of an answer for.

They obviously want to come to the UK but how do you make the UK less desirable?

I can’t imagine living in a hotel for months/years is a good life even if you do get bed and board.

it sounds as though the people crossing the channel are only a tiny percentage of migrants anyway.

OTH the cost is incredibly high. We spend more on each person than other G7 countries and it enables criminal gangs to profit.

Legal migration supports universities, and we get health workers. Ok there’s downsides and it is unsustainable in some ways. But the idea that smaller numbers mean lower costs doesn’t really work.

Yes that is true.

But how do the government stop it?

This gov won’t but the next one can get a mandate to make changes and get closer to an Aus system. Pretty much the only ones who have stopped similar.

If someone could explain to me how unprecedented mass immigration doesn’t impact housing - and social housing waiting lists, that would be great.

even if we meet the government’s housing targets - which all experts have basically said are completely unachievable - we still won’t have enough.

this is probably the biggest reason house prices and rents are so high.

if your rent is high, you cannot afford anything

It’s not about having a fundamental issue with immigrants/immigration “in general”, it’s recognising that this specific unprecedented wave of immigration is putting massive pressure on us.

the government does it to make our GDP bigger - even though GDP per capita is going down, which is the bit that matters for living standards.

if someone can tell me how that is “thick” and “racist”, I’d be grateful - thanks!

I suspect that very soon the government will adopt the Swedish and Danish measures, insisting on integration, language proficiency and adopting the values of the host nation.

Also, ”stopping the boats” or “smashing the gangs” is only a tiny part of the issue. legal immigration needs to come down massively!

100% agree. Just under 1200 on small boats on Saturday. Good weather over the summer and we could be looking at literally 10s of thousands a month. People who need housed, fed, medical treatment, supervision and that’s even before the costs of “processing” them.

I simply cannot understand the “migrants welcome” narrative - these are not educated, skilled people coming to work and contribute to the economy financially and socially - they are predominantly unskilled young African men with a completely different set of cultural values, especially regarding the rights of women and girls.

Even the skilled migrants are an issue as per the junior doctors’ thread.

I genuinely think we as a country are on a one way ticket to complete social unrest and economic disaster but you’re a right wing facist if you voice concerns.

Our DC will look back in 10, 20 years and wonder how we let this happen.

"The cost of housing asylum seekers in the UK is expected you reach a staggering £15bn over 10 years, a significant increase from the original estimate of £4.5 billion. This dramatic rise is attributed to a surge in asylum claims, particularly those related to Channel crossings. The National Audit Office (NAO) has reported that the daily cost of housing these asylum seekers has tripled, reaching £4 million a day."

I think that a lot of the people who shout the loudest about it come across that way.

I’m talking about certain people who are very vocal on Facebook, and those that were rioting last year.

This thread seems to have been a very sensible and respectful discussion.

Although it feels futile because it sounds like it isn’t really in any governments interest to make any real change.

Maybe we could start with “insisting” fit people work rather than rely on the state to keep them. We wouldn’t need foreign health care workers if wages and conditions were an incentive to work - I can’t blame some people on benefits for choosing not to work if they end up worse off!

Why are these 2 things mutually exclusive?
I'm not talking about the so called UK "work shy". I'm talking about Scandinavian measures which may make integration of migrants more successful.

Sadly I don’t think that would work. We’d just end up with millions sleeping rough and stealing to feed themselves. I am massively against uncontrolled migration but we couldn’t just let people starve.

It will be for the next. Up until now the rhetoric has been it’s ‘culture wars’ ‘dog whistle’ mostly used by Labour to stop discussion.

I think that’s ending, people will just vote for harsher stuff.

No they’re not - I agree. But we wouldn’t need as many migrants if our own people worked more.

@Youdontseehow

Our DC will look back in 10, 20 years and wonder how we let this happen

But we aren’t letting it happen -we have brexitted, voted for a string of new PMs over short term, now got Labour in but NONE HAVE SORTED THIS -so now we are moving to reform

Anyone who comes to these shores should be treated with dignity and respect. The same with anyone already living here. There are a myriad of problems with various causes around this whole issue. The immigration stats would indicate that in recent years, the numbers have been equivalent to that of a city the size of Liverpool entering each year. This needs more effective planning and support, even if these are vital workers for our economy.

Probably massively oversimplifying, but this is the bit I don’t get.

I genuinely know personally tens of people who have never done a days work in their lives, and have absolutely no desire to.

I get that there will e people with illness and mental health problems, but most could at least to something. There are far too many people economically inactive.

But cost of living is so high people get trapped.

If numbers crossing remain high that won’t alter much. And would cost even more.

My sister lives in Sweden. There has been a rise in antisemitism. I think education on this is essential.

There has been a massive increase in immigration over the last few years - tbf,can be laid largely at the door of Boris Johnson. People now worrying that it's not sustainable to have the population of Birmingham arrive each year, and also that such large numbers will mean a lack of integration and rapid changes to society.

It is in the government’s interest to sort it out, it has now got past the stage of kicking the problem into the long grass as successive governments have done. If Labour don’t get a handle on it (and soon) they will lose the next election. Starmer knows this.

Lets flip that on its head for a minute (not necessarily what I believe but what Reform might credibly say).
Immigration is a good portion of nurses, social workers, social care workers, probably doctors as well there is a well documented on MN issue with international doctors coming to the UK and taking posts they are overqualified for so that UK trained (at great expense) doctors cannot get posts as they have fewer points. There was a thread the other day from a newly qualified GP who said she couldn't find a job and was having to look at other careers...

people who need to earn a higher wage so we can send remittances to our home countries so not spending money in the local economy which would support local businesses and contribute further to the public purse by consumption taxes like VAT.

Immigration are people with ambition to own our own homes so graft for it, increased demand in the housing market puts up prices and may make homeownership impossible for people born in the area. Its also not the case the people born here don't work hard and graft for the ever diminishing dream of being able to buy their own property.

people who want our children to excel by being educated at schools paid for by the taxpayer - as pp have said upthread there can be problems if children start at school unable to speak English, if there aren't enough places in local schools so children who once would have been in catchment for eg their village school now have to travel miles to the next one. In counties like Kent that have major migration crises and a grammar school system - there are problems if familes tutor their kids like hell to get into the grammar schools and local children who should have made the cut don't.

so that maybe one day they can go and rebuild our home countries. or maybe they will decide to stay here and take jobs from local people. Or conversely that the taxpayer will have paid a fortune to educate them, provided them with free health care etc etc and then the taxpayer won't get a "return" on that investment because they will go elsewhere.

I'm only playing devil's advocate here but you can see how easy it is to take what is quite an unpleasant post and counter it with equally unpleasant rhetoric. Then you wonder why it is such a hot topic.....