Immigration - can someone please explain it to me in simple terms?

[Illbeinthehottub]

So for as long as I can remember I’ve heard that there is a problem with immigration in the UK. There are headlines about it daily and it’s always an issue for government. It’s a big part of what Brexit was about.

I don’t personally understand all about it, what is the issue, is it simply than people feel immigration is putting additional pressure on services?

I’ve just seen another headline saying that Kier Starmer has lost control of the borders.

Conservatives were in power for 13 years, presumably immigration was still unacceptable to people. Now people are unhappy with Labour.

Can someone who understands explain to me a) what is the problem with immigration b) why hasn’t any government been able to have an acceptable policy that works c) is immigration just something for people to whinge about?

Surely it’s a given now? Nothing has changed so far. People don’t say anything in public for fear of being labelled ‘far right’’. So they will just wait patiently until the next election and vote Reform.

Yes they are. One of my friends lived and worked in Spain for a few years.

Her two younger brothers went through the Spanish education system (she came back but her parents and brothers stayed) she and her son had medical treatment in Spain and her mother is still there using Spanish health care.

Oh and she complains about immigrants.

OP

There are various rough groups of immigrants.

1. Working holiday - these are usually young single people from Australia / New Zealand. They are allowed in to the UK for 1 or 2 years primarily to travel but are allowed to work. In London every bar seems to have a Kiwi or Aussie behind the bar.

2. Students. As a PP said, they pay for their education and as part of their visa they may have to pay an 'NHS surcharge'. I'm not sure of the latest rules but they were normally given a 1 or 2 year working visa after graduation.

These visas were often abused by people who actually wanted to work, not study and there were 'collages' that would fake attendance for a fee. These people are a problem, not the students and graduates but the ones abusing the system.

3)'Normal' Immigrants. People who are moving to the UK permanently, some but not all will become British citizens. These people can be any age, eg a young couple may have moved here as, say, a couple of doctors, they work in the NHS and have children but then one of their parents becomes ill so they may want to bring that person into the country.

Some are spouses of British citizens, this can be a problem if the British citizen is not earning enough then they cannot bring in their spouse, even if they have been married 20 years.

It's not just spouses though, where my dad lives a father whose children were born in South Africa was trying to get them in to the UK. His ex wife had died and temporarily the children (primary age) were living with their grandparents in an old people's home. But he did not earn enough to bring them in.

He actually brought them in a a holiday visa and then applied for them to have leave to remain. Technically these children were illegal immigrants but even under the last government it would not be a good look to not allow them to stay with their father, paternal grand parents, aunts and uncles. I can't say this particular two 'illegals' bother me.

4. Asylum seekers, people leaving a war zone or a place where they are oppressed. The problem is it can take time to process the application and in the meantime they have to be housed and fed. There are various reasons why the UK is preferred by some people. They may already have family here, they may speak English, they may not feel safe in other EU countries.

5. Illegal economic migrants. These are the people who are a problem. They often pay a fortune to be smuggled in to the UK where they work for very little in the black economy.

They are often exploited, trafficked and many of them are children.

When they have been found they may claim asylum even though they are not in any danger. As with genuine asylum claims it takes time to process and in the meantime they have to be housed and fed, and often they disappear back into the black economy.

You can control some migration by limiting visas, putting restrictions on some visas or some migrants but there can be ramifications to British people doing that. Eg many British people go to Australia / New Zealand on working holiday visas as a reciprocal arrangement and of course the economic migrants do not have visas.

You can also put limits on what employers have to do before they can bring a foreign worker in to the country.

So if the local Indian restaurant wants a new chef from India, they have to jump through a few hoops and pay more than a certain amount.

How do we stop the small boats?

Personally I think there are a couple of things that could be done, like allowing asylum claims to be processed in France.

I think we could offer a legal route for economic migrants. Often a family club together to pay a people smuggler to get one person in to the country where they work illegally to send money home. Or the person is smuggled in tot he country and then is forced to work to pay of their 'debt' to the smuggler.

I think we should offer visas for these people, expensive visas, just slightly less than the people smugglers charge and allow people to work legally for a year or two.

I understand the argument for asylum seekers not being allowed to work but I think they should be given opportunities to volunteer and to learn English.

We need more housing across the board. Putting people in hotels is not the answer, people think they are living in luxury. They are given 3 meals a day and get their bedding changed once a week but it is up to the hotel what they are fed.

There are more children than ever growing up in poverty. They're becoming adults who had no education, no real work ethic instilled into them...only a worldview that life is unfair, nobody is listening to them, and 'others' are getting priority treatment.

There are low/no-skilled workers being replaced by technology. Industries that traditionally employ the working class are dying, or being moved overseas to save money. People are hurting.

Many of the people affected are competing for jobs with immigrants who are - to be blunt - willing to work harder for the same or less wages/benefits. That breeds resentment.

The decline of public services breeds resentment. It's a complex issue, but the easy answer is 'more people, less to go around'. Many believe that by virtue of a cosmic lottery that led to them popping out of their mother on a certain bit of dirt, they're entitled to first dibs.

Many who don't contribute much (or anything) to society - the real empty-heads - are happy to believe lies about people coming here illegally and getting benefits, luxury hotels etc, because they need someone to hate. They cannot admit that it's their fault that their life is shit, or not what they thought it would be, so they accept the boogyman that's been fabricated for them.

Whatever you think of those people, whether you write them off as idiots, or bigots, or lazy...whether you think they should pull their socks up or adapt to the times...whether you write them off completely and think we should simply leave them to wallow in their own misery...the fact remains that they exist, they have a voice and a vote.

Immigration is an issue. It's nowhere near the issue it's made out to be. What people should be worried about are the people who are trying to weponise it.

Don't worry they are all hopping over to us in Ireland either though the North or on a ferry from Wales!

This is such a useful and informative website. Thank you for sharing.

I’m loving this thread, surely anyone can see that it’s a Border issue ,we are not effective in manning our borders.We cannot just rock up In other countries.Illegal ways of entering the UK who ever you are is wrong.The UK needs to be tougher with France.It is right that Net migration is curtailed.It should not be ok for students etc to be allowed family members.It is known to be one of the easiest ways to come to the uk,some not even then studying.
The NHS is not set up to correctly take payment for people whom shouldn’t receive treatment.It is also over subscribed by oversea nurses who culturally do not give care as nurses trained here are. Life in the uk is not great now,I remember the 1990s life was great.I do wonder what opportunities my children will have.I also don’t want to be ill.

I am not against freedom of movement but I am against people coming over in the back of lorries, the overhead cabins on planes (I know this used to happen) or on flimsy dinghy’s. Getting searched for 100g of shampoo etc through an airport but anyone can can get on a boat and pop over. It needs to stop. I don’t agree with Rwanda but seemingly Labour are developing similar but different policies.

There were immigrants causing Blair,Brown and Cameron problems before Brexit. It was Human rights and laws which stops the gov sending illegals back.

I am an immigration adviser. There ARE some huge holes in the immigration system that need to be closed, but it is essentially a problem manufactured to make the poor hate other poor people instead of the rich. Asylum seekers are like less than half a percent of immigrants. The biggest groups are partners, EU people who were here before Brexit already, Ukraine and Hong kong refugee schemes and skilled workers. All of those people (bar Ukraine scheme refugees) basically need to work in order to prove their residence, meet requirements and settle here long term.

Other facts:

• immigrants are less likely than British people to commit crime by a lot. The ones who ARE committing violent or serious crimes are usually here illegally and the government is deporting a whole lot of them.

- Immigrants where I live are on exactly the same banding housing-wise as Brits where I live, and that is pretty consistent across the country. I've seen former child victims of sex trafficking living in a travelodge for two years, which frankly, I think is torture. - some sectors of employment simply WILL NOT be taken up by Brits. The care sector is made up of Black African and Filipinos, without whom the system would completely collapse. Starmer thinks that by stopping recruitment of foreign workers, he will raise incomes for Brits in the sector, but he is about to be blamed completely for the total crisis that will hit social care when people stop getting PIP and carers allowance.

The hate speech UK laws make sure no one can say anything. I think Farage is an idiot but if voting for him means it scares other parties into actually fixing immigration it’s worth it. Possibly means leaving the ECHR which he might attempt to do.
EU countries can make draconian laws to sort their immigration issues somehow our weak Gov can’t.

We need a complete crisis in social care before older Brits will pay out. In Mays gov I think it was £37,000 everyone must pay to cover care costs -no 100Ks for some and council funding for the other but it was shouted down.

So therefore it is a problem, because people can weaponise it.

The problem with the small boats is that people can visualise it. You can see the boats arriving, illegally, with mostly young men. 1,100 yesterday. Perhaps in the scheme of things, it's not that many, but it's not a good migration policy, and rightly or wrongly it worries people.
It then becomes weaponised, as pp have said.

I can see immigrants sitting chatting and smoking in the local town centre, live in hotels in or near the town . Dont need to visualise anything.

Most people don't see that unless they live near it. However, they see the small boats on the news.

I was born and bred in the UK and worked here paying taxes until I was 47. My ancestors going back hundred of years were born and bred here too. I left the UK to live and work for four years and on my return at 51 I had to prove I was habitually resident here and wait 6 months before I could get medical care under the NHS. I couldn't get any help with housing as I was fit and healthy and under 75. So I was street homeless for a period of time. I gained a temporary place in a hostel where I made friends with other women including asylum seekers. Once they gained asylum status they were given social housing. I was pleased for them but angry that I was not considered in housing need.

I think they also have to reach these men that women wearing revealing clothes is okay

Yes, I saw that they are doing that in Denmark, with images of acceptable Western clothing in order to change attitudes.

I strongly believe that all immigrants should have to speak read and write English as a condition of their right to remain here. Asylum seekers cannot integrate without this. Asylum seeking women coming from countries where women are oppressed cannot benefit from the freedoms of our culture without this and remain in the ghetto.

Net zero is just another reduction. If you think reducing from one number to another is sensible but reducing again isn’t it’s more political association than much else.

I do not think you need to worry about it, at all. There are plenty of white British people who want to leave this racist and xenophobic and politically toxic cesspit as well, so net net, in the long run, figures will go down.

Ah, the poor are lazy, and thick?

Are you from the past? It's a very Victorian attitude.

Also, Nigel Farage is the biggest grifter of them all; he will promise your Granny eternal life and your toddler unicorn wings. Anyone who could pass GCSE maths knows his numbers do not add up and spell worse than Trussonomics. I think they need to bring back GCSE Maths for all voters.

I agree, this sounds very much like the Victorian notion of "the deserving poor".

So why do so many non white people want to come if it's such a racist cesspit?