To think my coworkers are rude?

[getmeoutofhere36]

We moved to a mid size town in Ireland a few years ago. I've been working part time in retail and I'm really struggling with my coworkers.

All they do is talk about other people, all day long. It's not that they're horrible to me or anything. But it's like their only topic of conversation is the people around them and the people they know.

AIBU for finding this strange?

Everyone frames it to me as a cultural difference and I'm trying not to judge. But it's so hard, and I can't help feeling like these women are just gossips, actually, and they're the ones with poor social skills. I feel like I'm being gaslit into thinking something is normal and "cultural" when it really isn't.

Example :

It's a four hour shift I'm working with my manager. She spends 1.5 hours of it total having conversations with customers. Each conversation lasts about 25 minutes. The entire conversation is about people they mutually know. The cancer / divorce / death / emigration, new baby / new job / personal business of all these people I don't know, who aren't in the room with us. I can't contribute to this conversation. If we were working together on something before it started, all I can do is stand there like a lemon and pretend to look busy, waiting for it to be over. Or I serve all the other customers while my manager is just standing and talking. Sometimes this happens three times in a row, while I'm doing all the work and she pretends not to notice.

It's so awkward. This happens ten times a day. There is never any attempt to make introductions, involve me in the conversation, or explain who all these people are. She just launches right into it and leaves me standing there. To make it worse, we work with three other women and they all do the same thing. I get that they're used to living in a world where everyone knows everyone else, and maybe it's awkward for them. But am I crazy to think this is a lack of basic social skills? Isn't it just manners to introduce people? Don't they think it's rude to talk about other people's personal business in front of a stranger?

Thank you! Sounds silly, but I appreciate even just hearing "I know how you feel". That I'm not mad to be bothered by it

I don't understand when you say your standing beside your colleagues whilst they chat. Do you not have anything work related to do?

You think they are gossipy and rude, they are probably very aware of the fact that you are not a fan from your body language/facial expressions (and I know you will say you don’t let it show but it always does). I think people hugely underestimate cultural differences when you speak the same language (and I say that as an Irish Australian who spent 20 years living in England).

ewww this would feel so horrible and small-minded to me. But I work in a library, and it’s against company rules to gossip; we rarely talk about people, unless they’re characters in books 🤣

I remember my workplace being like this when I was on stage and in tv/film. Gossip all the time, and people were so competitive and insecure.

maybe a different job would be a better fit?

It would be easier in some ways if they were raging narcissists who only talked about themselves. At least I could respond!

I don't know, it's just hard. I try. I talk about my co-workers children, mostly. But my manager doesn't have any, so it's harder with her. If I ask about a book she's reading or something she watched on Netflix, she has so little to say about it, beyond "it was stupid" or "it was good". I really struggle

I just don't understand how they can know so many people! It feels like they each know about a thousand people. No exaggeration. If I spent the rest of my life going out and meeting people, I couldn't keep pace. I'd need about ten filofaxes to keep them all straight

I agree about adapt or move on. I think I'm just trying to decide if it's worth moving on to somewhere else in Ireland, or if I should give up. This really isn't a village. It's a pretty big sized town. I didn't expect it to be as insular as it is.

Honestly this is my gut feeling too. I think I'm being taken advantage of and I've lost my confidence. But then I tell someone and they rush to tell me what a normal Irish thing it is for people to act the way my co-workers do. And I start doubting myself

Thank you. I think you're right with a lot of this, especially that last paragraph. They've all been long term in the job and don't like people they see as just passing through. I thought three years would be enough to disqualify me from that group, but maybe not 😅

This is very much a "it depends". If you worked in a professional job in the same mid-sized down (let's pick lawyers for sake of argument) your experience would likely be rather different. Sounds like you have a job that you don't particularly like with a group of people you wouldn't normally socialise with. Maybe you should find yourself a job that attracts the kinds of people you typically get on with?? So, if you find yourself being annoyed by a bunch of gossipy middle aged women go get a job that has more blokes, or is faster paced and has less time for gossip? Or involves more self-directed work?
If you want to be the centre of conversation then go get a job as a bartender - people will inevitably talk to you if youre the one between them and their food/drink!

Alas, smaller towns/villages are often pretty gossipy - this isn't a uniquely Irish thing - though I tend to find that at least the Irish are pretty warm about it! You need to put the effort in though - no point being standoffish and giving off an air of disapproval and then expecting people to invite you to chat. You also need to put in the work yourself: ask people about themselves, find common ground rather than identifying what makes you different.

Sadly I saw this alot when I moved to the US: expats who came over looking for things that were like England were horribly disappointed - you'd find them searching for other brits and utterly missing the point of living in an amazingly intersting new country. For my own part: I just threw myself into my new life 110%: would have a whale of a time meeting new people and asking them about themselves, and going to all the different events etc. It was amazing. So much so that the village I grew up in in the UK seems utterly dull and bland by comparison these days, and I find the people there to be rather boring.

It’s not going to change unless you bring on the changes - you introduce yourself and you talk about films/books/tv and you divert the chatter back to more interesting things if the bitching starts. OR move jobs.

I think you're only saying this to be snobby about retail.

Like I said, I'm often left shouldering more than my fair share of the customers, while my manager is having a conversation. Sometimes there isn't anyone else in the store though, and we were in the middle of a work-related task. I obviously have to wait for her to finish talking so we can continue it.

I should probably mention, some of what I'm calling customers aren't. They're just people who call in to talk to her. They're not buying anything, so it's not like I can help serve them.

That's fair. At the very least they'll have noticed I don't gossip. And sometimes they get so personal I don't really know what to do with my face! Talking about someone I barely know who had an affair or something. Or someone else's son's coke habit. I never really know what I'm supposed to say in those situations. I don't know anyone involved so it feels weird to offer an opinion

My DP’s family is from a remote part of Ireland and I recognise a lot of the gossip mentality that you’re describing. They seem to tolerate ‘blow ins’ but there’s definitely a two tier system in operation, with blow ins treated differently.

As someone who grew up in a huge city, I find it difficult to understand, and I find myself increasingly withdrawn when we visit because I feel that they will never truly accept me (I’m not sure if that will extend to my children). I’ve also had the odd comment about the heritage of my children, e.g. I explained my family has mixed heritage and was then asked ‘what will your children be like?’, a question I doubt I would have been asked if I were Irish.

I originally thought they were warm and kind and tolerant, but increasingly I see the small mindedness and cattiness. I agree that the Irish people I’ve met outside of Ireland seem way more open minded, but perhaps that’s one of the reasons they left. It just makes me glad to live in a big city with anonymity to be honest.

I would move OP. It sounds like your boss is exploiting you because you’re foreign. You don’t have to put up with that sort of nonsense.

If you move to a place then the onus is on you to fit in. If you don’t want to do that (and neither would I) then your choice is to accept it, or move somewhere different.
I come from a small place where everyone knows everyone. I have no interest in either taking part in, or being the subject of their gossip, so I just don’t engage and will be leaving as soon as I can.
I came back here for my unwell parent, then my own health issues meant I’ve been here far longer than I intended. But soon I’ll be leaving.

I think you're right. I really want to do something else. It's just hard because I never felt like I was 'above' retail, and I wouldn't know where to start looking for something else. I need to try and build up my confidence.

A library sounds like heaven

Library work has its challenges, but it’s a good fit for me, and I suspect it might fit you, as well.
if you have customer service experience, you are a good fit for a library! It’s not “above” retail (although I do really love that things are basically free; I got tired of selling.)

gossip is a basic human instinct, as we’re learning, in a way, but being in an environment where people talk about ideas rather than people is so much more comfortable to some of us, I think.

It’s a public forum love. The whole point is to give your opinion. Not my fault people are too sensitive to hear the truth 😂

They seem lack to lack self awareness and definitely have no social skills. I would also say if the town is small they probably aren’t very cultured, which isnt a bad thing. But very much stuck in their own ways, not open minded. I would just start talking to them, so they have no option to ignore you. It’s very rude, definitely couldn’t live in a place like that.

Thanks. You're not wrong about the job being a bad fit. I'm starting to see that. Just struggling to figure out what would be more "me".

I wouldn't say I want to be the centre of conversation though. I've always been more of a "small group of close friends" kind of person. It's the workplace element that bothers me about all this, and the way it feels like I'm purposely being left out all the time. I try to find common ground, but there's only so much you can do when people would prefer to talk amongst themselves about a third party you don't know. Or when they purposefully turn their back on you to talk to someone else, instead of turning in to include you, and they don't make basic introductions.

You're assuming I'm standoffish. But aside from not being a gossiper, I'm very friendly. I can do casual chats! It's just that there is no "in" to the conversations going on around me. I really don't see what else I can do to "put in the work".

I do! I try. That's how I've spent the last three years. In most places, asking people about themselves is a failsafe. This is the first place I've ever been where people are more interested in their neighbours than themselves! It's a bit unusual and I don't really know how to handle that. Gossip is just not in my nature.

It's definitely time to move on.

OP, I lived and worked in Ireland for three years. I definitely recognise the interconnectedness - worked in a business professional services environment and the business was still very much based on a web of Irish personal connections and 'have you heard about so and so'. I did a good job, but customers didn't tend to build a personal connection with me in the same way. And if someone didn't remember my name I was referred to pretty consistently as 'the one with an English accent', so they were noticing the difference.

But my colleagues would absolutely never have been rude like that. It was the opposite, I would then get a follow-up conversation filling in any gaps so I knew who so-and-so was as well! And I absolutely loved working with them, they were lovely.

Honestly, it sounds like it's time for a change, you've tried with these people and they're never going to let you into their circle.

Thank you for this. It's kind of crept up on me, but I've definitely become more withdrawn since moving here. Less of a real person. I feel like I stand out and like I'm completely invisible, at the same time. I want to build myself up again, I'm just not sure how.

It's sad, thinking of how I used to be. I spend all day smiling at people, but inside it feels like all my light is gone.

I'm tired of selling too. I feel this.

I'd love to be able to make people happy, more than just helping them part with money. I love organising things, problem solving, and having positive interactions with people. I love recommending someone a book or a film they turn out to really enjoy. I think I do want a job with more meaning.

Gossip feels draining to me. Like getting off on other people's misery. It's different if someone confides in you one on one about their problems, but I'm just not comfortable hearing about the struggles of a stranger. I find the lack of emotion / fake empathy in these conversations weird. People are pretending they care but you can tell they don't. They're just going through the motions. It unsettles me. The "oh poor so-and-so" attitude but it's so insincere. More about saying the right thing than actually feeling it?

Thank you. And you're right - I don't think I would mind the conversations so much if the attitude surrounding them was different. If the topic was less personal gossip and more happy sharing of news. If they tried to include me a bit more, or at least acknowledged they were leaving me out. It's all just a bad energy, and I think it's getting to me. Time for a change.

It sounds such a tedious way to spend your working life. I’d hate this and would change jobs in a flash.