Teacher pay

[Maddie05]

Seeing a lot online at the moment about teacher pay increases being unreasonable. I think teachers do a lot in society and a lot of what is expected of teachers appears to be out with their paid hours.

Am I being unreasonable to think they deserve a pay rise in like with inflation?
(FULL DISCLOSURE - I am not a teacher but I have children in a school and I volunteer on a PTA)

Exactly. And a pay increase is something tangible and quantifiable. Improvement to conditions would be more effective (I'd take lower workload over a pay increase in a heartbeat!) but harder to put in place, harder to prove, more expensive and less quantifiable.

Can you explain why you think they are paid enough?

Why would it make me happier? I’m giving my opinion. I think you need to redirect your anger at the one’s responsible, not someone who is on a public forum 🤣

It's a good question - unfortunately it's difficult to just repeat them, even if you didn't want to put any effort into improving them (I find a lot of teachers, myself included, are perfectionists and you also learn with experience what works or didn't, and see ways it could be better).

Different schools have different curriculums and methodologies, so moving schools last year to one with no shared resources meant I had to spend a huge amount of overtime creating PowerPoint lessons from scratch. The expectations were so different, it was less time consuming than adapting my old resources, for the most part.

Then curriculums change (the new GCSE curriculum in my subject has affected almost all year groups), and school expectations change, particularly if you're in a school that keeps introducing new CPD initiatives - or just has a particular focus on what they want to see in lessons that term/academic year, which is most schools. Learning walks add pressure to be seen to be ticking certain boxes. My department's subscriptions to different online textbooks and resources has changed each year, which affects lessons that relied on access to these (eg audio exercises)

Add to this, classes are different. What worked for a studious and able group last year is not going to work for a very mixed ability class with students with low motivation/interest. That's not even taking into account individual needs of students with SEND, low-intermediate EAL etc.

Having resources for the same curriculum from that school and low turnover in the department helps but you're never just 'done'. Though you learn to adapt on the spot more where needed.

It’s the money and holidays that’s currently keeping me in teaching. We’re in the south east with a high mortgage and childcare costs, I can’t afford a new entry level job to work my way up, so I’m stuck. My husband has an average wage. So for me an increase in salary does help with retention. I am lucky as my school isn’t too bad to work for.

I do think schools need to find a way to be more flexible to retain and recruit staff. There was a thread the other day about a woman trying to decide if she should take a new job with a 5k pay rise but less flexibility, limited work from home. The vast majority said stick with the current flexible job, it wasn’t worth it for only £5k! My children go to breakfast and after school club and I can’t go to their school day events. That has a value nowadays. Also, I can never have a cheap term time holiday, even when my kids have flown the nest. It’s a factor you consider when you’re weighing up wages and conditions of various jobs. I know lots of jobs can’t be work from home, but the lack of any flexibility (and many other things!) will put many people off considering it as a career.

Definitely! I don't think I would have gone into teaching post-Covid when so many jobs became remote.

Why would you think that I am angry at a random on a forum?
You do think a lot of yourself.

My OH is a primary school teacher and absolutely agrees with this. He feels he's paid well but god he'd love some respite from the insane workload, behaviour issues and entitled parents who treat and speak to him like he's their paid skivvy.

I’m not a teacher but I think that their pay is ridiculously low fir what they do

I think if the wider public knew how bad things are in schools they would be horrified but there seems to be a general resentment towards teachers and our 'cushty' holidays or a smug attitude of "oh I wouldn't want to do your job"

This is so true. And not just in terms of the conditions of teaching jobs, but also in terms of pupil experiences. Schools obviously don't advertise how dire the situation is, but I know of schools where the pupils haven't been taught GCSE Physics by anyone with a Science degree... or who have had a patchwork of long-term cover for the past 6 months... or who are being taught Maths by their Drama teacher because there just aren't any Maths teachers... or who have been put together with two other classes (so around 90-100 pupils in one) and been 'taught' (supervised) in the lunch hall in place of their English lessons due to teachers' long-term absence. Unless the kids realise what's going on (school plays it down, and this is becoming normal there days) and go home and inform their parents, their parents never know. And in my experience, the kids rarely do.

Well ask the government that, they are the ones responsible for making decisions on public sector pay. I'm now £300 better off with the new pay increase, that’s annually not monthly.

of course I agree teachers do good work but at the risk of being controversial, surely they get paid to work 60 hour weeks during term time because they get so many weeks of holiday off? I am a nurse/midwife and get paid the same as my teacher sister (almost exactly based on FTE). I get 6 weeks of annual leave including bank holidays, she gets 13 weeks. So I assume she works longer during the term time to make up for the astounding amount more holiday that she gets. Otherwise, it makes zero sense?

I’m not a teacher but work in a primary school and aware of their pay scales, they are paid enough and are looked after by SLT and unions.

Not for those that are homeschooled. You can also say those teachers wouldn't have been born without the help of nurses and doctors. But another chicken and egg theory.

This. Plus there is constant change to exam specs. For instance, OCR are removing Measure for Measure from its A Level English Lit spec at the end of this year, meaning I need to spent all summer preparing to teach Hamlet instead. Okay, I could wing it and do a terrible job, but I actually care about my students and therefore want to teach it well. Unfortunately, for A Level, this requires an enormous amount of work. Everything I've prepared and developed over the past 6 years on that is now irrelevant.

At the moment your children will often be taught by any warm body a school can find. Teachers were told to ‘leave if you don’t like it’. And they have. In their thousands. Recruitment is so bad. Want a good teacher then you’ll need to make it a career that is attractive to graduates. Currently it is not.

But you're assuming the holiday is actually 'holiday' (ie time off from work). This is half term and I've worked at least 20 hours this week (and will be working a lot of this weekend too). Just trying to catch up on marking and admin! The amount of emails I've had is ridiculous too. Sure, I could wait until next week to reply... but then I'm putting myself under even more pressure - I barely have a spare second in the school day as it is! Then, as soon as results day hits in Mid August, I'm basically back in anyway (I'm a Head of Department) - sooooo many questions from parents and pupils re results, data to analyse... for GCSE and A Level. Anyone who things teachers get all the holidays 'off' are very very naive.

@ridl14 ‘worked at a crazy pace through the day, all through lunch and tended to do 7.30-5pm.’

This is me! Other than results day, where as SLT I have to work, I do no work at weekends/holidays - but there’s hardly time to breathe during the working day. Not had lunch for years!

This.obvioisly they won't be informing you that your child is being taught Maths by the PE teacher, or Spanish by the Geography teacher (who knows not a word of Spanish), or Physics by someone who isn't even a qualified teacher (ie not attained QTS) but this is happening everywhere. Parents just don't know (and usually pupils don't know either).

I don’t work 7 days a week nor do I work 12 hour days. I get to school at 8 and leave at 5 latest. Sometimes I work in the evenings (but it’s rarely marking; usually planning or data) but I don’t mind getting my laptop out and my husband works way longer hours at home than I do in the private sector.

I’m not saying teachers’ pay is amazing, but I get around 60k when you consider holidays and pension, and although I find my job stressful, it’s a good stress and surely would be the same in any other job of a similar level? I think in the right role and school, it’s okay.

And my husband earns twice what I do so my perspective of a decent wage certainly isn’t anything above national average. I’ll happily take a pay rise but equally I plan to climb higher to increase my pay myself

Teachers don't get paid for holidays. They get paid for 195 days only but their salary is split across 12 months.

@Holdonforsummer bless you. I’ve apparently been on holiday for the past 4 days (not counting bank holiday). I’ve actually been in schools for 3 of them, running exam clinics. So have v many others. I’ll break up on 23rd July, have 3 weeks to recover and then start writing the new SOW for next year. I’ll be in for both results day. So those holidays are not really days off - I probably get 5 weeks off.

Probably your aggressive and sarcastic tone? That might explain it. And yes, I really do think a lot of myself. Well done for having the ability to notice 🤭

9 hours a day - not bad! So you teach in the private sector? May I ask what subject and approx class sizes? If I found a teaching job where I didn't need to do any work in the evenings or weekends, I'd never leave!

Sorry, just realised you do state you also work some evenings... my bad!