to think that Anne Elliot could have been happy with Mr Elliot

[Christmasmorale]

if Wentworth hadn't come to Bath and she had not become reacquainted with Mrs Smith?

Just reread Persuasion and really enjoyed the development of Anne's friendship with Mr Elliot this time round. I know he has dubious morals but I think he actually valued and would have loved her had she accepted him. Obviously Wentworth was perfect for her, but I think a romance with Mr Elliot would have been an Austen worthy novel in itself. She would have finally got the status in the family she deserved, gained her father's admiration, married the man her sister Elizabeth felt entitled to, taken her late mother's place in the family at Kellynch Hall, and Mr Elliot would (hopefully) have been a better man and loving husband as a result of Anne's good influence on him.

Although Anne initially thought she could never marry Mr Elliot, her feelings for him were softening until Wentworth came back to Bath and completely dissipated once Mrs Smith told her the truth about his character. IMO if it wasn't for those two events, there is no way she would have resisted his charms for long given the suitability of the match to everyone concerned. As it was, Mr Elliot's involvement was just a literary tool for Wentworth to finally recognise and act on his feelings for Anne and for Anne to realise the value of own judgment and show character development in resisting being persuaded by Lady Russell's desire for the match. BUT he could have been so much more...

YANBU - yes, she could have been happy with Mr Elliot and secured her whole family's future
YABU - it was impossible for her to be happy with Mr Elliot - she would always compare him with Wentworth/ he wouldn't have been a good husband to her.

I think superficially it seems that way. But she talks about how Mr Elliot never reveals his true feelings, never shows passion about anything. She's aware of not actually knowing him, despite quite an intimate acquaintance.
She feels deeply and strongly and recognises that someone who pleases everyone - in other words doesn't have a strong character but just says what people want to hear - wouldn't suit her at all.

But he’s a fickle, greedy character surely? He was meant to marry Anne’s sister but married a wealthier woman and Anne’s poor friend Mrs. Smith tells Anne she and her husband were good friends with Mr. Elliot and his wife, and that it was Mr. Elliot who encouraged her husband to spend money he did not have, driving the Smiths into debt. When Mr. Smith died, rather than helping Mrs. Smith as he had promised, Mr. Elliot left her in disgrace. She thinks he wants to keep Mrs. Clay from marrying him Anne’s father.

Love to see Austen making an appearance on AIBU, but in my opinion yes, YABU. The fact that marriage with Mr Elliot would have bound her tighter to her extremely toxic family is not a point in its favour, and their approval was not worth having. She was well off out of there, with a husband who had good reason not to want to be close to them.

Agreed but I think she would have got to know him over time and change her views in that regard. I also think he would have let him into his true feelings once he was more secure his superficial feelings were returned, making them better suited to one another. My impression was that he was playing the long game with Anne due to his status as a widower meaning he couldn't rush things and also his other intentions of being around in Bath to keep and eye on and separate Sir Elliot from Mrs Clay , but without realising that time was not on his side with Anne due to Wentworth's appearance in Bath.

He wasn't solidly 'worthy' - they couldn't have had a 'happily ever after' because of lingering uncertainty about him.

And, from a modern day perspective, the fact that they're related would have ruined it for me. I'm glad she wrote it the way she did - it's my favourite Austen novel!

That's a really good point actually. Her family would not have got what they deserved and she would have never had peace of mind from them if she had married Mr Elliot.

Also we would never have to to see both Elizabeth and Anne's father get screwed over by Mrs Clay if Anne had married Mr Elliot.

Putting to one side they were cousins, as it's modern times. I don't feel like we got to know Elliot properly which was deliberate. He entered as an opportunist outsider who may have had things in common with Anne underneath but his character was on the make. I think he was a 'maybe, if things had been different' rather than a true baddie or true prospect. It's been a while since I read it though.

I have some sympathy for Mrs Clay. She played the hand she had been dealt and did so rather well. I like to think Mr Elliot might have married her, but it's more likely that he would have pensioned her off and found himself a wealthy heiress.

YABU - he's a cold fish; incapable of actual love, I think. And who wants the admiration of her pillock of a father? Anne gains by leaving them well behind when she marries Wentworth.

I think a huge factor here is Mr Elliott's lack of religious principle (to use a rather Austen-era term for it!).

Anne wouldn't have been able to be happy with someone who didn't share her moral principles and religious beliefs, no matter how well he treated her or how outwardly suitable the marriage was. This is a big deal to all the Austen heroines, I think, although the novels rarely labour the point.

Mr Elliott is similar to Mr Crawford in this. Both appear to be ideal husbands in many ways, but both lack religious principle and are therefore completely unacceptable. They can never be fully trusted or respected.

No - any more than either of the Crawfords would have been a truly good match - for Austen’s heroines, their partners must be morally honest.

I agree I’ve never really thought about that aspect of all the Austen heroes. Say with Mr Rochester in Jane eyre, differing morals don’t prevent love but you’re right, Austen requires all the men worthy of the heroine’s love to be morally perfect (even if they have personality flaws/ quirks).

Not sure I like that requirement… I really disliked Edmund and wish Fanny Price had chosen Mr Crawford - he’d have made a more interesting and less condescending husband than the one she chose.

totally agree- other than Anne, Mrs Clay was my favourite character. She took her future into her own hands rather than accepting the lot society expected of her. I think she’s clever enough that in time she’d have found a way to make sure Mr Elliot had no choice but to marry her.

With the handicap of a clumsy wrist and freckles!

I don’t think any of the film adaptations have ever risked casting someone fully as attractive as the Wentworth actor as Mr Eliot, have they?

It’s a bit like the Henry Crawford dilemma in Mansfield Park — if he’d genuinely fallen for Fanny, and she’d returned his love, would he have reformed and been a devoted husband? The difference, of course, is that he’s far more attractive than dull Edmund… Joan Aiken’s Mansfield Revisited sequel (which is very good) actually rehabilitates both Crawfords as basically good, and depicts Henry as never marrying and as having been genuinely in love with Fanny.

YABU - I had my doubts about Mr Elliott right from the start. He was too smooth and not genuine which means I could never have married him.

Mr Elliot was a chameleon and underneath a bad hat -he would never have suited Anne imo. Crawford was interesting, charming, the life and soul of the party and a terrible flirt. I suspect the last point would have made Fanny unhappy, but to me he sounds a far more interesting husband than Edmund.

It’s an interesting idea but I don’t think he could have become a better man under Anne’s influence. I think that’s an error only too many women have fallen into. And agree with PPs that she needed not to seek her family’s approval. She would have ended up unhappy on both fronts.