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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Womens Gynae is still barbaric

193 replies

ellie09 · 30/05/2025 11:57

Recently got referred to a colopscopy for a biopsy after an abnormal smear.

I have had biopsies before, on my skin etc and I assumed there would be local anesthesia of some sort for this one.

But no.

Two biopsies taken from my cervix with no local anesthesia or pain relief provided. It was painful, it was burning and I burst into tears afterwards in the car.

I wasnt expecting to have a screen of my cervix directly beside me, showing the procedure. I wasnt expecting to get up from the chair and blood to be below me on a paper towel on the floor (I thought they would have removed this before I got up)

I like to think I have a really high pain threshold - I have been through birth, tattoos, piercings, kidney stones etc without much complaint, but this seemed to really rile me up.

Not to mention, nothing was explained thereafter, I was taken into a room with wipes and a pad and told I could go home. Thats it.

Went home, took painkillers and cried some more.

Is this really womens health in 2025?

OP posts:
Todaysworldandbiscuits · 30/05/2025 18:45

I had to have 1 hysteroscopy biopsy, and 3 colposcopy cervical biopsies as they kept coming back unviable (no fault of my own). I was a nervous wreck in the ebd, and heard the supporting nurse say to the other nurse "Oh she's nervous." Well no shit sherlock, I've been back multiple times. I don't want to be talked to like I'm in the hairdressers. Honestly imagine men going through something like this, they'd get every pain relief going. I still don't think my cervix has recovered yet!

ellie09 · 30/05/2025 18:47

amooseymoomum · 30/05/2025 18:03

when I was 17 i was raped which resulted in a pregnancy which ended in a miscarriage. Admitted to hospital I was told by my GP I would have a D n C which was standard then for anyone miscarrying. that afternoon a doctor came round the ward pulled the curtains round and told me he had to get rid of any foetus and blood clots. thinking it would be in theatre he told the nurse to hold me down then pulled the items out of me with forceps no pain relief. I was so traumatised resulting in a breakdown which ended in me going to a mental hospital staying next to a mother and baby unit which did not help. when I panicked and lost my shit I got slung against a wall by a male nurse resulting in a broken nose and shoulder.
Didnt mean to hijack but meaning to say even though that was a few years ago throughout my life anything to do with 'women's things' ie pregnancy birth hysterectomy etc has been nothing less than barbaric humiliating and painful

Thats horrendous, no wonder you are traumatised!

It seems to be all areas of womens health. My mum is going through menopause right now and her male GP told her its not that bad! She is suffering badly and had to fight for years to get HPT!

OP posts:
ellie09 · 30/05/2025 18:51

Todaysworldandbiscuits · 30/05/2025 18:45

I had to have 1 hysteroscopy biopsy, and 3 colposcopy cervical biopsies as they kept coming back unviable (no fault of my own). I was a nervous wreck in the ebd, and heard the supporting nurse say to the other nurse "Oh she's nervous." Well no shit sherlock, I've been back multiple times. I don't want to be talked to like I'm in the hairdressers. Honestly imagine men going through something like this, they'd get every pain relief going. I still don't think my cervix has recovered yet!

I honestly think getting the snip sounds less excruciating and men get pain relief/numbed for this!

I knew a male needed a biopsy relating to prostate cancer - this was also done numbed with painkillers prescribed afterwards (not the typical "go home and take paracetamol")

Its just baffling the differences between male and female care

OP posts:
GeorgeMichaelsCat · 30/05/2025 18:53

VickyEadieofThigh · 30/05/2025 13:29

I had a Mirena fitted in 2003. Even back then I found smear tests excruciatingly painful and told the doctor this - he immediately said "We can sedate you". They did, it knocked me out completely and I felt nothing

My advice to ALL women - even if gynae procedures have previously been painless - is to claim they're painful and insist on appropriate anaesthesia.

They put me under general for a few procedures I had to have a few years later as I told the GP I would not have them done while awake given my experiences.

I've had so many nurses and Doctors look down on me when I claimed I was in pain. Even had one complain my cervix wasn't where it was supposed to be.

GoBackToTheStart · 30/05/2025 18:58

Aliflowers · 30/05/2025 17:05

I later had surgical management for a miscarriage and was given pain relief tablets and also gas and air before the local due to how uncomfortable the injections into the cervix are, and then during the procedure.

Sorry is that the norm in the UK or is is a choice? To have an ERPC/D&C under a local? When I had mine and anyone else I’ve ever know who has had to have one it’s been under GA (Ireland). It’s not even the pain aspect. But the trauma of being awake during the experience.

I’m not criticising other people’s choices btw if there is that option but I’d be horrified if my only choice was to be awake and have a local

I wasn’t given a choice and didn’t realise GA was an option (or the norm in many places) until a midwife appointment for my current pregnancy where she assumed it was under GA and I had to correct her.

The gas and air definitely made all the difference - the experience affected me quite significantly but it wasn’t the procedure itself so much as the trauma of the loss that hit me all over again (they’d tried medical management first so there was a while in between) which I think would have happened with a GA too. I had decent enough aftercare (stayed in the hospital for a couple of hours after for monitoring, tea, toast, biscuits in a private room with a family member etc) and left on my own terms when I felt ready.

With the LLETZ it was the procedure itself that was traumatising and I drove myself back sobbing. The contrast really shocked me.

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 30/05/2025 19:06

ellie09 · 30/05/2025 18:51

I honestly think getting the snip sounds less excruciating and men get pain relief/numbed for this!

I knew a male needed a biopsy relating to prostate cancer - this was also done numbed with painkillers prescribed afterwards (not the typical "go home and take paracetamol")

Its just baffling the differences between male and female care

It's not baffling at all. It's clear misogyny. Centuries thereof.

Ohthatsabitshit · 30/05/2025 19:08

I had a stent removed by a Dr and was reluctantly given pethidine. What followed felt like assault and was utterly awful in every way. I was broken for a long time. I’ve had many rounds of IVF, 3 miscarriages (one included a manual evacuation to save my life without pain relief), and nothing has been as bad. The Dr wanted to hurt me. The way he spoke to me was horrible and the way he handled me even worse. It was ten years or more ago. Two nurses were there and did nothing.

Dramatic · 30/05/2025 19:33

I had an endometrial ablation a few months ago, this is where a device is put in to your womb, expanded and then they burn away the lining of your womb. You have a hysteroscopy immediately before and after too. It isn't done under GA, I have no idea why because it is exactly as brutal as it sounds!

I always go completely silent when I'm in pain so I closed my eyes and shut down, the (male) doctor said afterwards "I wish all the women were like you" and it did make me think; if they know it's so painful and many women can't tolerate it then why is it not done under GA?!

Dramatic · 30/05/2025 19:42

Dramatic · 30/05/2025 19:33

I had an endometrial ablation a few months ago, this is where a device is put in to your womb, expanded and then they burn away the lining of your womb. You have a hysteroscopy immediately before and after too. It isn't done under GA, I have no idea why because it is exactly as brutal as it sounds!

I always go completely silent when I'm in pain so I closed my eyes and shut down, the (male) doctor said afterwards "I wish all the women were like you" and it did make me think; if they know it's so painful and many women can't tolerate it then why is it not done under GA?!

Oh and to add to this apparently they USED to do this under GA!

PersonaNonFatta · 30/05/2025 20:05

ellie09 · 30/05/2025 18:47

Thats horrendous, no wonder you are traumatised!

It seems to be all areas of womens health. My mum is going through menopause right now and her male GP told her its not that bad! She is suffering badly and had to fight for years to get HPT!

I think that if a male GP had told me that something gynaecological "wasn't that bad" I'd've been hard pressed not to lamp him one.
Or at the very least ask him, all sweet and nice like, "Oh, so you've been through menopause/had a hysteroscopy/colposcopy then?"

linelgreen · 30/05/2025 20:15

Dramatic · 30/05/2025 19:33

I had an endometrial ablation a few months ago, this is where a device is put in to your womb, expanded and then they burn away the lining of your womb. You have a hysteroscopy immediately before and after too. It isn't done under GA, I have no idea why because it is exactly as brutal as it sounds!

I always go completely silent when I'm in pain so I closed my eyes and shut down, the (male) doctor said afterwards "I wish all the women were like you" and it did make me think; if they know it's so painful and many women can't tolerate it then why is it not done under GA?!

i had this done about 4 years ago and just told the consultant I would only consent if done under GA and there was no problem with this request. They will not offer it but you 100% are able to demand it.

Dramatic · 30/05/2025 20:34

linelgreen · 30/05/2025 20:15

i had this done about 4 years ago and just told the consultant I would only consent if done under GA and there was no problem with this request. They will not offer it but you 100% are able to demand it.

I had no idea this was an option tbh but I feel like it should be standard or at least offered to you as standard.

Dramatic · 30/05/2025 20:35

linelgreen · 30/05/2025 20:15

i had this done about 4 years ago and just told the consultant I would only consent if done under GA and there was no problem with this request. They will not offer it but you 100% are able to demand it.

To add salt to the wounds it didn't even work 😫

FatherFrosty · 30/05/2025 20:53

RedToothBrush · 30/05/2025 16:24

Thats still not ok. You had withdrawn consent at that point.

They should cease IMMEDIATELY. No ifs, no buts.

You don’t know how much that means reading that. Thank you for replying

FatherFrosty · 30/05/2025 20:55

Some of these stories are fucking awful.

they just don’t give a shit do they. It’s just women making a fuss again

B1rthdayD1lemna · 30/05/2025 20:58

healthyteeth · 30/05/2025 16:34

Agree.
It’s making me want to rage scream for women everywhere 💔 😡

I’ve stopped going to ‘preventative’ procedures (mammograms, smears etc) now I’m in my 50s as I don’t want my breasts squashed between 10/20kg of weight and I don’t want my vagina clamped open and my cervix cells scraped. If I ever have symptoms of anything I’ll cross that bridge but until they make women’s healthcare less like torture the medical system can F off.

Yes, agreed about mammograms. I had to have one as part of recent investigations and the positioning for the sideways images was so painful I nearly yelled out. I think it’s important to make procedures as comfortable as possible if you actually want people to take part in preventative screening, but that doesn’t seem to be C a consideration.

The author of “Age of Diagnosis” (I’m generally not a big fan as I think she’s oddly fixated with physcosomatic illness) did make some interesting points in her book on screening programmes for women. I’m not sure about cervical smears but I think the levels of false positives for breast screening are really high-so your risk of being treated when whatever they find would have been harmless is pretty high. Perhaps someone on here has stats…

RedToothBrush · 30/05/2025 21:10

B1rthdayD1lemna · 30/05/2025 20:58

Yes, agreed about mammograms. I had to have one as part of recent investigations and the positioning for the sideways images was so painful I nearly yelled out. I think it’s important to make procedures as comfortable as possible if you actually want people to take part in preventative screening, but that doesn’t seem to be C a consideration.

The author of “Age of Diagnosis” (I’m generally not a big fan as I think she’s oddly fixated with physcosomatic illness) did make some interesting points in her book on screening programmes for women. I’m not sure about cervical smears but I think the levels of false positives for breast screening are really high-so your risk of being treated when whatever they find would have been harmless is pretty high. Perhaps someone on here has stats…

Dr Margaret McCartney who wrote the patient paradox, won't take part in cervical screening herself for various reasons. She makes the point of you have symptoms you absolutely should get checked though.

Given her analysis of the harms / considerations about informed consent / analysis of risk profiles / how data is presented in a biased way and how she breaks all this down in various ways, she's a pretty heavy weight voice to say that.

B1rthdayD1lemna · 30/05/2025 21:12

RedToothBrush · 30/05/2025 21:10

Dr Margaret McCartney who wrote the patient paradox, won't take part in cervical screening herself for various reasons. She makes the point of you have symptoms you absolutely should get checked though.

Given her analysis of the harms / considerations about informed consent / analysis of risk profiles / how data is presented in a biased way and how she breaks all this down in various ways, she's a pretty heavy weight voice to say that.

Edited

This is so interesting @RedToothBrush . I actually just started a thread on this! Is her book the best place to start or has she written other articles?

Pbjsand · 30/05/2025 21:14

babystarsandmoon · 30/05/2025 12:20

I’ve had two colposcopy’s with biopsies and never felt a thing. I’m booked in to have another so hoping it’s the same experience again.

Posting my positive experiences so women aren’t terrified and avoid going.

Edited

Same here 🙏

Aliflowers · 30/05/2025 21:15

GoBackToTheStart · 30/05/2025 18:58

I wasn’t given a choice and didn’t realise GA was an option (or the norm in many places) until a midwife appointment for my current pregnancy where she assumed it was under GA and I had to correct her.

The gas and air definitely made all the difference - the experience affected me quite significantly but it wasn’t the procedure itself so much as the trauma of the loss that hit me all over again (they’d tried medical management first so there was a while in between) which I think would have happened with a GA too. I had decent enough aftercare (stayed in the hospital for a couple of hours after for monitoring, tea, toast, biscuits in a private room with a family member etc) and left on my own terms when I felt ready.

With the LLETZ it was the procedure itself that was traumatising and I drove myself back sobbing. The contrast really shocked me.

Yes you’re right it would have been traumatising no matter how it was performed. I was given the option of medical management or ERPC. As I was 13 weeks with a MMC they did stress the surgical management would be the “easier” option and tbh I just wanted the whole thing done. My MC was diagnosed and I was in 2 days later.

I’ve luckily never had to have a colposcopy and reading here I’m so glad of it. It sounds at best uncomfortable and at worst utterly barbaric

RedToothBrush · 30/05/2025 21:22

B1rthdayD1lemna · 30/05/2025 21:12

This is so interesting @RedToothBrush . I actually just started a thread on this! Is her book the best place to start or has she written other articles?

She wrote a newspaper piece explicitly on smears which I read. In her book she doesn't go that far on a personal level which she does in the article, but she certainly is critical of some screening.

In the book she talks more about bowel cancer screening commenting that during trials they realised that there was a point where there was almost a point where patients were 'too informed' and didn't comply with the 'desired behaviour' of providers instead opting not to take up the offer.

She was also very much not into pressuring women into cervical screening / advising about weight because of tick boxes because it can reduce healthcare engagement as a side effect. Thus if they have symptoms about something completely unrelated, patients will leave it longer before seeking treatment because they are worried that they will be scolded about non compliant behaviour for the box tick. This could put their health at risk - and they were never at risk for the issue relating to the box tick.

I'll have a search and see if I can find the article online but I'm not sure I will be able to find it.

It was from some years ago and she was very straight talking with it. But as I say she had the big caveat that symptoms were not the same as participation in screening programmes.

Traceysgoingtobelivid · 30/05/2025 21:41

PersonaNonFatta · 30/05/2025 16:49

Please don’t risk your health. I had a smear this morning (I’m also in my 50’s) Hadn’t for years after my horror colposcopy.
I was dreading it, because I hate them, but I was lucky enough to get the nicest nurse in the world, who was so kind and reassuring all the way through. Even had me laughing on the couch which made me feel less awkward.
Perhaps ask to have a chat with your practice nurse, she may be able to reassure you.

That poster is an adult and has made an informed decision on her own health, stop treating her like a 5 year old.

B1rthdayD1lemna · 30/05/2025 21:45

RedToothBrush · 30/05/2025 21:22

She wrote a newspaper piece explicitly on smears which I read. In her book she doesn't go that far on a personal level which she does in the article, but she certainly is critical of some screening.

In the book she talks more about bowel cancer screening commenting that during trials they realised that there was a point where there was almost a point where patients were 'too informed' and didn't comply with the 'desired behaviour' of providers instead opting not to take up the offer.

She was also very much not into pressuring women into cervical screening / advising about weight because of tick boxes because it can reduce healthcare engagement as a side effect. Thus if they have symptoms about something completely unrelated, patients will leave it longer before seeking treatment because they are worried that they will be scolded about non compliant behaviour for the box tick. This could put their health at risk - and they were never at risk for the issue relating to the box tick.

I'll have a search and see if I can find the article online but I'm not sure I will be able to find it.

It was from some years ago and she was very straight talking with it. But as I say she had the big caveat that symptoms were not the same as participation in screening programmes.

Thanks

RedToothBrush · 30/05/2025 21:49

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-i-m-saying-no-to-a-smear-7577967.html

And this interview is interesting:

https://www.sefap.org/2014/09/24/interview-with-margaret-mccartney-the-waste-and-harm-of-overdiagnosis/

-M.M.: This is the “popularity paradox”. The worse a screening test is, the more false positives there are; the more false positives there are, the more people are led to believe that a screening test saved their life. So the paradox is that the poor screening test becomes more popular, as people are led to believe that they have been saved, not harmed, by it.

She's saying that screening is driven a lot by peer pressure and people coming along saying 'you should have your test, my test saved my life'.

Except the paradox is that lots of these people, didn't have their life saved. They had unnecessary treatment. But they will never know their treatment was unnecessary because of how this works. They just believe their life was saved rather than understanding they might have been one of those who had actually been harmed by screening.

It's a difficult thing to get your head around. Its's an uncomfortable thought that many of those who are 'walking adverts for the success of screening' are actually the unwitting unaware victims of harms done by screening. Certainly no one who may have gone through that will want to consider they've potentially been harmed rather saved. Psychologically it doesn't compute.

Her point is that some of these numbers when assessing risk are massively off.

If the risk across the population as a whole is 1 in 2000, this isn't an evenly spread thing. Certain conditions are very much part of a pattern of family history. So if you have a family history of a certain cancer your risk is actually much higher than that 2000, but the reverse is also true if there isn't that pattern. And this massively distorts 'the risk' you are presented with.

Thus if you are armed with this knowledge about risk not being evenly spread, you might make different decisions. People with a family history might take it much more seriously whereas other might go, actually that risk is really really small, is it worth taking the risk of harm because that's actually a lot higher for me all things considered and I also might wish to consider the impact of the actual procedure itself to my mental health.

Thus being MORE informed can lead to patients deciding they don't want to consent in certain situations.

The whole discussion around presentation of risk is a fascinating one. I do recommend reading up CAREFULLY about what she says in full. Everyone should read the Patient Paradox even though it's now quite an old book now - it's still hugely relevant today. It's one of those books which is hugely important (Ben Goldacre's books are better known about big pharma and science more generally, but it's the same principle).

She talks a lot about the misogynistic nature of the promotion of screening programmes to women too and how they are potentially very unethical and rely on coercive techniques and the infantilisation
and patronising of women which doesn't happen in the same way to men.

It's a fascinating subject, and I really can't help feel we haven't moved on at all since she wrote it.

Why I'm saying no to a smear

Dr Margaret McCartney is a GP. Yet she refuses cervical and breast cancer screening and hasn't measured her cholesterol. She explains her reasons

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-i-m-saying-no-to-a-smear-7577967.html

Traceysgoingtobelivid · 30/05/2025 22:01

I think the mammogram statistics are shocking, this is from the NHS

This adds up to about 4,000 women each year in the UK who are offered treatment they did not need.

Love how they say 4,000 women each year are “offered treatment” as if anyone is going to turn down treatment when they’ve been told they have cancer, that “treatment” is mastectomies, chemotherapy, radiation, life long medication all of which they didn’t need, absolutely shocking.

Womens Gynae is still barbaric