Mr Tumble at school?

[orangesky1]

My reception child came home today saying they had been watching Mr Tumble at school - a boring and silly man - in his words!

not heard of this one before - had a Quick Look on YouTube now, and it looks completely inane.

it is otherwise a good school, so I am surprised by this. Am I missing something? Is this actually educational?

we are not anti screen time although I have a general feeling the children don’t get enough exercise in school, but that’s a topic for another day. I do think if they are showing videos, they should have some merit - either educational, informative about the world or properly artistic, entertaining or thought provoking.

Not this lowest common denominator drivel, that seems better suited to a 2 year old.

I don’t want to make a complaint but would just be interested in hearing views from those who have watched more than two minutes as maybe I am being unfair.

Oh God the theme tune is in my head now!

We had four BSL signers (three of them deaf) at my school, working alongside some if the more able children who were hearing impaired. One of the signers ran the evening classes that some of us took to gain the level 1 qualification.

None of them seemed to agree with you, @Leftrightmiddle . Both BSL and Makaton had their place in our school.

What does bug me is that Justin Fletcher gets all the credit for the series, when he is just an actor who was selected to be the main character.

It's the people who had the idea for the series, wrote it and brought it to fruition who deserve the kudos. And I bet none of us knows their names.

Please don't use the term hearing impaired it is really offensive.
In my personal experience it is very difficult to speak out against Makaton in a school setting so I very much doubt you know their true feelings in Makaton or understand the damage Makaton has caused

Makaton is different to BSL. Makaton is based on signs to support the English language, so people with learning difficulties can communicate. That is different to hearing impaired people who use BSL, which has it's own grammar etc.
Both have very valuable uses based on need.
Young children with extra leaning needs would struggle to do BSL to conversational standards. BSL is a language on it's own. Makaton helps people learn basic signs to communicate their needs. You really can't compare.

Oh, and I use the word 'hearing impaired' as that's what I am and what I use.
I don't mind other terms if others are happy to use them.

Young children with extra learning needs struggle to do English to conversational standards. Where is the auditory based system that you can purchase and learn to help them. Using some words from English alongside made up sounds and without Grammar?

Obviously we have to ensure they don't have access to English as this would be too difficult for them right?

What are you on about?
Yes there has been critisism that Makaton doesn't encourage 'conversation'. What about the non verbal though?

You clearly have no experience at all with minimally or non-verbal children with severe learning difficulties. Their needs are entirely different from those if children who are deaf.

This discussion will continue to go nowhere while you refuse to accept that that is the case. We are not talking about children who simply cannot produce words. We're talking about children with cognitive disabilities, but who we desperately need to be able to express their needs with single words, signs or symbols.

Some signs need to be simpler for these children than the BSL signs, as many of them simply don't have the dexterity or ability to copy the more difficult signs, that deaf children without cognitive or developmental issues can use. That's why Makaton exists.

You said children can't manage to learn BSL because of additional needs (despite Makaton being from BSL and the signs are BSL)
The reason signing (using the BSL signs) helps children is because eit is visual language. The non verbal children struggle with auditory languages of English. So I'm asking why hasn't a auditory system been created. Why are we denying these children proper sign language access. We don't deny them English.

We accept that some children won't speak English correctly. We don't deny them English and stop speaking to them.

If we deny them access to visual language of BSL we are limiting their potential. Some children may only ever learn key words and/or key signs used on single word sign level. That is ok we meet the person where they are

Other children with exposure to language may learn more. This is why we don't stop using language with children. If a child never comes across the word car they won't ever have the chance of learning the word car.

With Makaton we are denying children and young people the opportunity to learn and develop.

With BSL / SSE we are ensuring they have every opportunity

And that is why Makaton is so dangerous - it is pre deciding that certain children can not learn, it is pre deciding that this group of people can only learn a limited number of words/signs (a specific set of words only).

If we decide at 4 years old that child B won't ever be able to tie their laces so we don't need to develop fine motor skills we are limiting their potential. By allowing access to skills and opportunities we widen the potential and if they don't tie their show laces they will have developed other skills through access to opportunities

Not on point but I remember reading a long running thread with posters who claimed to have/had slept with 'slebs and somebody wrote a post about Mr Tumble 😀

The irony is this is my area of expertise.

Give me an example of a sign in Makaton that is easier than the same sign in BSL?
I have many examples of signs in Makaton that have been made harder from a dexterity, co - ordination and cognitive perspective.

Give me an example in English language where a word has been changed to make it easier for children with additional needs and how this adaptation has become used in the mainstream

What are you trying to prove?
If you're not happy with what's out there, do something about it.
BSL is a structured language with, according to Google, only 151,000 users. Unless you are dedicated and have a specific need, you aren't going to see it being used and not mainstream. English language is obviously spoken all the time, so how are additional needs children/adults being deprived of language.

Have you had children of your own? Are you deaf? Do you have a special needs child/adult in the family? Or, do you just teach/preach? What exactly is your area of expertise?

I'm not trying to prove anything.

I'm am pointing out that Makaton has many many pitfalls.

I am doing lots in my professional life on a daily basis.

BSL should be being used on a daily basis it has so many benefits across the board (from complex needs, to inclusion and multilingual and multimodal benefits for all).
I mention English language because no one would attempt to create a system to replace English (despite English being complex and difficult for those with complex needs). But if you consider the same being done to other minority languages like Welsh for example (history of both Welsh and BSL have many similarities) then maybe you can understand why Makaton and other systems are so bad.

When we deny the children with complex needs who struggle with auditory languages access to visual / signed language this is the same as depriving them of auditory language. Language is all around so if they can access it they will. This is why visual language like BSL needs to be seen all around too.

I am Deaf, I have children (one with complex needs), I work in language development and specifically with young people who have not had access to accessible language. I am fluent in BSL and fully knowledgeable/skilled in Makaton and signalong.

I understand parents will grasp into anything that may help. The reality is that Makaton will give the illusion of working (because the signs are BSL and this aids communication), and parents will loves this. Communication is the aim and communication improves. The issue is that it's surface gain and not full potential gain. The risk is that the young person does not achieve their potential and Makaton has limits.

Whenever anyone speaks against Makaton, there is so much conflict and denial. Take a pause and consider. I weigh up the situation regularly and I consider other perspectives. I have seen no evidence that Makaton can offer anything different to what BSL already offers.

Good point, May half term is the same everywhere as it's a break in the middle of GCSE and A levels. It carnt change for this reason.

BSL is also complex. Some special schools using whole school communication use it throughout but some preverbal children with additional needs have motor difficulties so find the simpler signs easier to learn.

DS2 only ever mastered "mine" and "more" 😂Alphablocks was his communication breakthrough. He developed a huge obsession when he was 8 and started to make the words with wooden blocks, which progressed to typing and then he started to imitate the sounds they made. He's 19 now and hasn't shut up since.

This has got to be a joke? How can you not know who Mr Tumble is 😂😂

Justin fletcher is totally gross.

Why?

CBeebies does some amazing shows, of which the Justin Fletcher stable are some of the best. I hadn't realised how much Makaton I'd absorbed until a deaf child joined the Cub pack is used to lead.

DS's particular favourite was The Lingo Show. He's nearly 17, but can still count to ten and say Hello in several languages!

Makaton is based on BSL. The signs in Makaton aren't simpler (Makaton myth) or easier to produce many are actually more complex from a dexterity, co-ordination and cognitive perspective due to the artificial changes and errors made by makaton.

All Languages are equally complex in their nature. A 2 year old child wouldn't have mastered the grammar of their first language we don't however decide that no 2 year old can learn Spanish, French or English because it is too complex.
Some children will grasp the grammar of the language used at home quickly others may use single word answers for longer. Some may never master fluency / perfect grammar. In no other language do we pre decide that a child is incapable of learning and just give up.

Whether or not Mr Tumble is a sudo educational tool for inclusivity or sign language is by the by in my opinion. By that argument let's sack the nursery teachers and plonk the kids in front of alphablocks, numberjack's and Mr Tumble all day. These programmes are all fine, and I'd prefer my kid to watch Cebbebies output over the random crap on Pop, but they're not a substitute or even a useful addition to education delivered by a trained human.

I don't think it's right for kids to watch any TV at school, with the exception of maybe a film on the last day of term. It's lazy. It's a way to zombify the kids for ten minutes so the teacher can do x y or x. When DD was at primary she was watching a 10 min YouTube cartoon every morning after registration, then few Mr Bean cartoons through the day. This was supposed to be an outstanding school. I understand teachers have more sen kids to look after, more paperwork, and are now trained to be more akin to a child's friend rather than an authority figure. But we shouldn't accept this is ok

Omg! I love Gigglebiz, my DIL and I laugh like idiots when it’s on. 😆

My dd school seemed to do half the teaching by watching videos. When not watching videos it was reading off a Twinkl PowerPoint then doing a Twinkl worksheet. all through KS1. Everything in moderation is fine but I felt it was excessive.

All these people horrified about TV in schools...
Do you not remember Words and Pictures (for Infants age) and Look and Read (Juniors)?
In my primary days (80s) we also listened to schools programmes on the radio !
The radio ones came with workbooks if I remember correctly and were a mixture of storytelling and songs.