AIBU to think it isn't fair for school to ban skirts and dresses

[helloall987]

My kids attend an all through school they start at 4 in reception and it goes up to 18. There is a primary and a secondary site.

From September they have changed their uniform to trousers and shorts so no school dresses, skirts or pinafores allowed. All children boys and girls to wear black trousers or shorts. No school shoes either just black trainers. The two reasons they cite are modesty and a gender neutral approach so there is no distinction between girls and boys. This is for primary and secondary school pupils. My DD loves wearing pinafores and patent school shoes. I just think think that with this policy the idea of "feminity" is being taken away.

Most parents think it is a great idea but there are a few of us who want to contest it.

It is interesting how it is always girls fault and by extension women's fault. Western culture has always regarded women as having both the ability to be innocent, caregiving, submissive but on the other hand they are seductive and avert men from their righteous path. The politics of skirt wearing in schools really does fall into the latter perception of girls in my mind.

Maybe that's the answer, make to uniform 'exactly' how kids wear it now. See how long before they campaign for uniform that isn't exploitative, and misogynistically based. Tell them it's because pervs like it, because boys are immature, because they aren't 'worth' viewing as independent young people.

disclaimer: not seriously- but it's a thought.

Or, female clothing is sexualised in a way that male clothing isn’t, girls are encouraged from ever-younger ages to expose as much flesh as possible in a way that boys aren’t, and too many girls and women (who should know better) go along with this (empowering! choice! blame!) instead of examine it and picking it apart.

Back in my day girls rolled their skirts. The difference was that the adults in the room (parents, teachers) acted like adults, knew that rolling skirts doesn’t benefit girls at all, and were strict about it.

The way many girls, parents and teachers act about school skirts is such a huge gift to pervy men.

Is it to stop boys "dressing as girls"?
A lot of teainers won't be so good iin the winter - wet socks.

Lol I will quote you then: “I’d be very dubious about school with pre-teens and teens that wants to pretend there’s no difference between boys and girls.”
You’ve literally said you think the school is trying to pretend there is no difference between girls and boys. How can I possibly be reading that wrong? 🤣

There are certain elements of feminism that are just gifts to pervy men.

Yes? Where did I say that had anything to do with clothes?

For me, clothes are the least important difference between boys and girls. I would want to know what else this school is up to. Mixed sex sports, for example? Mixed sex toilets and changing rooms? (We know these are unlawful but activist schools have put them in place anyway.) Gender ideology being taught as fact?

“Feminism” which focuses on choice and equality (as opposed to liberation) isn’t feminism at all!

Because people don't automatically assume a woman in trousers is trying to be a man

But they do if a man wears a skirt. If a man wears a skirt he is treated with contempt, caller names and assumptions are made about him

Perhaps you should pick apart your own beliefs on this; that are really another version of the woman being addressed by the Devil, yields to temptation, bringing humanity to the fall!

Girls clothes are not all sexualised, that is very extreme and really is in the eye of the beholder, where does that thought process end- with something like the Taliban mindset? Besides if no uniform existed I think you would see less of what you don't like!

Stop blaming women and girls for the existence of perverts!

seems sad for primary

The problem with just saying clothes have to be smart is that "Smart" means different things to different people. I invited a colleague to my wedding. She walked into a church in the right town, with the right name saint's name on the gate, and without ever having met my family or non-work friends, she took one look at the way the congregation was dressed, turned to her husband and said "We're in the wrong church, these aren't Tunnock's people ", and she was right. (Wrong denomination, they hadn't checked the street name)
By defining what's acceptable in advance rather than arguing over the subjective view of every individual item of clothing, schools make things much simpler and fairer and prevent parents wasting money on clothes their children will be asked to leave at home.

Whenever I read these types of threads I’m so pleased DT’s went to a non uniform school where clothing was a non issue. Typical wardrobe was jeans and a hoodie or shorts and T-shirt. Policing of what they wore didn’t happen as it wasnt needed.

It’s time the UK moved away from rigid impractical school uniforms and changed to non uniform in line with the majority of Europe and US.

I grew up in India in a very conservative time/place. (You could get rapped with a ruler)

I never did the rolling up my school skirt thing. Are girls these days doing it to attract male attention?

Whilst agreeing that perverts are not the fault of women/girls, if you thought that all women's clothing is not sexualised, read any of the threads on the Style and Beauty section about swimwear.

I’m not. But you can’t deny (maybe you can) that, for example, younger and younger girls are presented with teeny tiny shorts, for example - in a way that boys aren’t and that aren’t beneficial for girls.
School skirts are a part of that. They certainly have been sexualised, fetishised.
Mothers whining that their daughters must be given this choice (uniform is all about lack of choice, FFS!) are not helping. Choicy-choicy feminism is the chocolate teapot of feminism.

Looking at this in the fave isn’t blaming women and girls for anything. But I’m not in the business of dressing my daughter in a way that is impractical for school, doesn’t benefit her in the least and does benefit creepy men.

I don't think all women's clothing is sexualised as my DD is a teenager and my DS is a late teenager with a girlfriend and girl friends and I can see that what they are buying is sometimes baggy, non figure hugging and not dissimilar from what the my DS is wearing. Of course, make up, hair length, sometimes dresses are not what you would associate traditionally with boys but I wouldn't describe this stuff as sexualised; I am arguing that I don't think all women's clothes are sexualised not that some aren't.

For God’s sake. Do I really have to spell out that saying “women’s clothes are sexualised in a way that men’s aren’t” doesn’t mean every single item of female clothing is sexualised?

I also object to 'gender neutrality' being cited when taking away traditionally more feminine options.

At least in primary but all the way through I'd prefer to keep the option of skirts/pinafores. It suits some girls bodies better.

As soon as shorts are allowed as well as trousers length is going to be a discussion. So banning skirts because the girls wear them too short is just silly.

I'm not sure that I'd argue the shoe situation. My daughter was at a girls school that only allowed lace up shoes and it was fine. Shoes for school should be sturdy and long-lasting rather than pretty.

Well you are, by default, as in western culture women have always been depicted as controversial, the focus of controversy being about their Mothering skills (just like you are doing with your "Mothers whining" comment), the Virgin, the Witch, the Seductress. Basically, all of life's ills boils down to women's behaviour and actions.

You seem incredibly naive if you think the tendencies of perverts would decline based upon women's/young women's choices of outfits.

How does what you arguing liberate women;

"Oh yes Officer, I did sexually assault her after I invited her in for a coffee as her skirt was short and her top was low, I thought she was game; her Mum is to blame more than me; she didn't teach her that her clothes choices are all about a man's gratification"

Surely better to work on educating the conquering males and stop using pejorative language to describe girls who wear skirts and their Mum's who let them! By the way, where do Dads come into play here, is it only Mums that whine about these things!

Yes it is stupid. I always prefer dresses over trousers.

Just goes to show that male is the default. Gender neutral mostly just removes anything seen as feminine.

I hate trousers. When it’s winter I wear thick tights and warm skirts and boots. I experimented with trousers one day last winter and I was freezing. No thanks!

I mean I really hate wearing a polyester blazer and a tie and can't believe we make teenagers do it here. Uniform just is mostly shit.

I don’t know if you’re being obtuse but nowhere have I said that a choice of clothing makes a man a pervert or a rapist.

In that case it's sexist to make boys wear trousers! (Trousers, not pants)
Skirts can be more practical than trousers, depending on lots of different things!