Mixed or single sex Secondary school?

[Secondaryeducation]

Just that really. What are your thoughts?

I taught in a boys private school with girls in 6th form. I actually really liked the environment it gave the boys (compared to the mixed I'd taught in before). The younger ones stayed "young" for much longer playing with Pokémon etc and there was no drama about who was dating / fancied who. The first half term of y12 was always v sweet to watch as these mostly terrified boys got used to having girls in class but it always quickly settled and they seemed perfectly able to relate and relax well in their company by Christmas. Can't comment on the academics as it was a v high achieving selective school anyway but it wasn't a disaster ..the lack of a female audience I think led to a less toxic masculine environment than I see now in a mixed setting again.

@RhaenysRocks That’s interesting. I think my dd was also able to stay ‘young’ for longer than her friends at mixed schools - things like a big group of friends still sometimes playing running around games at break aged 13-14, and not much interest in make up etc at that age. I wonder why that is.

Single sex.

The mixed school i used to work in bore little resemblance to the real world. Many of the boys there would have been dismissed immediately in the real world.

Its no wonder many children become school refusers or develop mh issues.

I’d ask your child when the time comes. I was placed in a single sex school and I pleaded with my parents to not go there. The thought of being surrounded by girls freaked my 11 year old self out. Whether it’s because I have brothers, I don’t know. My DD felt exactly the same as me when it came to putting the school choices for her. There’s an oversubscribed girls school less than a mile from our house but she didn’t even want to look at it.

Depends on the kid and the school.

its not all about academics.

DS was v unsure of himself at 11. In a boys school he was easily above average and he gained a real self confidence. The school itself really broadened his horizons.

DD had had enough of toxic female friendships in junior school. She was also prone to putting too much pressure on herself and we were concerned all girls would be bad for her mental health. The school had amazing facilities and a v strong sports dept.

DH and DBIL went to a single sex school, it really does still show all these years later in both of them. Compared to my DB who is the same age and went to a mixed they are extremely awkward around females.

Several teachers have said a long the years, that my DS would have done so much better if he could have gone to an all girls school. He really struggles with boys, getting drawn into fights and the toxic masculinity. Girls always calm him down, he focuses so much better and he’s no longer afraid to show his true gentle self. Being in a mixed school this could be facilitated, he was always partnered with a girl. If he went to an all boys school he’d be horrendous.
My DD would pick mixed too, with having brothers, she doesn’t find boys intimidating and stands her ground.

My elder DD often complains that lessons are disrupted by boys being silly. She enjoys he PE lessons simply because there is no boys messing around!

I went to all girls sixth form and it was fantastic being in classes (like Physics) that weren't dominated by the boys. It was actually what made me do engineering at university. I wouldn't have been lead to that path at my previous school.

I would say it depends on the school. Both my girls went to a state single sex because we had no choice where we live & they both did well & enjoyed it
However, the sixth forms round here are mixed which gave a good balance before University I think.

Some parents were upset at the thought of single sex, especially for their girls, because of stories of bitchiness, bullying etc but the school handled girls well in my experience and anything that did happen was dealt with asap.
It was great for both of mine who had been in boy-heavy Primary classes because they could do everything, get involved in everything etc, in fact they had to.

A friend who lives in a different catchment deliberately chose mixed for her daughter and she was actually bullied horribly by the girls in her school. So it just really depends on the school, its ethos & how it feels with behaviour etc I think.

Girls do better on the whole in single sex, boys in mixed. Unless you’re in a grammar area and they are eligible and then grammar trumps this and then they both single sex grammar.

I agonised over this as I was concerned about delaying the socialisation with boys until later.

But I'm not convinced that there's much positive socialisation going on between male and female teenagers. Between the ages of about 12 and 16 in particular boys and girls are just a source of possible sexual engagement, judgement and threat to one another. Teenagers have been socialised to believe that its good to be sexually active when they're not emotionally ready for it and sex without trust is generally a bad idea, particularly at that age. And there's so much social status jockeying, attention seeking and peacocking, with a large amount of hormones thrown in. And that's before you factor in the Andrew Tate factor and the fact that some boys have been subject to a lot of negative influence. I just don't see much upside to having boys and girls together at that age.

When they get to 16, 17 and have developed a bit more robustness then I think its important to be exposed to the opposite sex.

@Charlotte120221

DD had had enough of toxic female friendships in junior school. She was also prone to putting too much pressure on herself and we were concerned all girls would be bad for her mental health. The school had amazing facilities and a v strong sports dept.

But toxic female friendships aren't only a single sex school phenomenon. They happen in mixed schools too.

As for pressure, that's down to the individual child. A child who is strong academically probably benefits from a bit of pressure, one who is less academic probably less so. But if you away the stressors and pressures of having boys around at such an impressionable age I think most girls will do better.

A lot of the men I met in my early 20s who went to single sex schools had completely fucked up ideas about women. Some horrifically misogynist, others almost scared of them and unable to understand they were also people and not mystical beings. With the current ideas about the manosphere/incels/MGTOW around the internet, which we know teenage boys are being affected by, I'd be even more wary.

The women who went to all-girls schools all seemed pretty normal, confident people. Though as someone who was an awkward kid (diagnosed with autism as an adult and oh god would my school years have been easier if I'd have known then) and found boys easier to get on with as they seemed to share more of my interests, it would have been absolutely disastrous for me.

Interesting to read the opinions on here and people’s different experiences, even within the family for different children. On principle, I don’t like single sex schools because society is mixed - in my brief experience of an all boys’ school, the boys struggled to see girls as being just like them and struggled to form meaningful friendships at the infrequent social events with an all-girls’ school. I recognise some of the negative male behaviours being described here and can understand the desire to shield girls from them influencing a decision about schooling at a personal level to an extent. At a societal level, however, the idea of systematically separating girls and boys as being the answer to these issues makes me very uncomfortable.

I agree that many teenagers have been increasingly socialised to see earlier sex as normal/expected (of course, the family has a huge role to play in those views but the pressures of peers, social media etc are very real). I think that teenage boys and girls can and do often have very positive friendships, though, where they don’t just see each other as sources of sexual engagement. My experience as a teenager was with a very mixed friendship group, lots of genuine, long-lasting friendships between boys and girls - and now between us as men and women. As a teacher, I still see a lot of this too.

Single sex. Statistics show for girls they do better academically but with the sexual assaults statistics in mixed secondary there was no way I was sending my DD16 to mixed state school.

Interesting this point. A very good friend of mine has two boys in a single sex boys grammar and says that the misogyny and antiquated views are off the chart.

DH and most of our male friends went to all boys schools (independent and grammar) - all are high achievers/successful and none of them are remotely misogynistic.
Their wives (also our friends) match them for qualifications/professions and also went to single sex schools.

The only people we know with the more traditional set up - husband working and SAHM - went to mixed schools. Doubt that is significant but just an observation.
The converse, however, is not true i.e. not everyone we know who went co-ed have a traditional set up.

When I came out as a lesbian my mum exclaimed “I knew I shouldn’t have let your dad sent you to that all girls school!” 🤣 (I think she secretly still thinks this is the reason now)
Obviously total BS, but I think in general mixed sex is better. Boys and girls need to learn how to interact with the opposite sex and be around each other. Single sex schools don’t model the real world.

My boys have thrived at single sex schools. My dd stopped liking maths and computing when she went to her mixed secondary, having been super-keen at primary. This was down to the behaviour of the boys in the class and the impression that they were boy subjects. OTOH the boys diffused some of the toxic relationship issues between the girls. If I could choose again I’d go for single-sex until sixth form.

I would argue that the real world is not the best place to educate girls.
And girls definitely do not need to experience the company of boys in lessons, which is often so detrimental to them (I say this as a mother of both sexes, so not bashing boys).

Mixing with boys can be done outside of school but does need parental involvement (and maybe money) to facilitate this, which is not always available.

My 8 year old is desperate to go to an all girls school as she’s so pissed off by the behaviour of the boys in her class. Somethings going a bit wrong really if you’ve got girls that age that are already feeling frustrated and annoyed by disruption but also a degree of male entitlement. The ratio is skewed so the girls are the minority and I think it does make a difference. It would have been better closer to 50:50.

I was mixed till secondary then single sex. I still saw boys on the school bus and at swimming club and so on. There were some joint activities with the boys' school, such as language exchanges, drama productions. And A-level lessons could be at either school, depending on subject - so I had one subject all at the boys (though doing Latin wasn't really mixing with anyone much,) another subject all at the girls and the third was half and half. So there was collaboration. It worked well IMO, and had I had a daughter, I would have wanted similar for her.

But it depends on the schools in question - there are good and bad schools whether single sex or mixed, and unless you're considering full boarding, your choices will be limited by geography. And it depends on the child - not all schools suit all children, and overall statistics don't fit every individual.

My DDS had the same experience and they both couldn't wait to be away from boys who they both felt dominated things at primary school. They both happened to be in classes with more boys than girls.

Their experience of single sex was that classes were on the whole quieter, less shouting out and unruly, physical behaviour.

But both were also happy to be back in mixed classes for A level.

Yes but it also speaks of the times. They have graduated and have gone on. The boys I am speaking about are still kids still in school now experiencing the Andrew Tate effect. This is real and happening now. I know of three head teachers/teachers at boys schools who say the same thing. It spirals because they all agree with each other and don’t have girls to call it out. It isn’t a competition on if single sex are right or wrong - it’s to say it isn’t the same as you knew it sounding like at least 5-10 years ago. Much like schools used to be different and the NHS used to be better.

I don’t think you have read my posts earlier - I am not a proponent of single sex or co-ed. I very much think it depends on the child, their family circumstances and the school.

I am also not fan of generalisations about either type of school or of either sexes, hence my counter argument about my personal experience of men who went to SS schools. There are others who have had different experiences of men who also went to SS schools.
Again, probably due to the individual, their circumstance and the school and that like-minded people are likely to flock together.

I am definitely not a fan of having to have girls (or women) to call out sexist behaviour.