Tory Mp Irish famine

[Barill22]

Andrew Griffith is al over the news for appearing to make a derogoratory remark about the Irish famine.

Any thoughts? I cant seem to link an article, but if you google his name youll see it

Zero experience?

I don't think you understand much of the experience of Irish people of any generation living in the UK, and the impact of Britain's long and problematic relationship with Ireland on that experience.

The Irish were seen by the Victorian British as monkey-like creatures, not quite human, and completely lawless, feckless, superstitious, credulous, dirty, stupid, impoverished because of their own irresponsibility, prone to drunkenness, violence, and excessive fecundity.

This was a fairly typical British response to native peoples who had been conquered and subjugated, but especially to the Irish who inexplicably and stubbornly refused to be British, and who were regularly depicted in popular magazines and castigated in editorials as the opposite of the sober, clear-thinking, responsible, intelligent British heirs to the Roman imperial tradition - but importantly not the Roman church. You can look up Punch magazine for the stereotypes.

Not Irish people, but the impact of the potato on Irish history, the history of British politics from 1845 to 1922 and then from 1969 to the present (via NI) - and also on the history of the US and possibly Australia and to a lesser extent Canada, is profound.

It may seem like a long time ago to some but it was only my great grandmother eg who suffered directly from the Great Hunger, being evicted age 9 and living and starving under hedgerows in Mayo.

But there were awful consequences for her children who suffered from heart problems etc ( a result of her starvation while gestating them).They died variously between 21 and 35.

A third generation, their children, also suffered being orphaned at a very young age. It wasn't until her great grandchildren that the ravages of the hunger were not felt ( my generation ).

Sure we still have blight warning on Irish weather forecasts. There’s even a warning on todays weather!

The term "Irish Potato Famine" is also offensive. It was not a potato famine. While the potato crop failed, that was not the reason for the famine. It is referred to as The Great Famine in Ireland. The Irish famine would also be acceptable.

Yes the famine is still talked about a lot in ireland.

Also the time of irish independence last century , is still talked about a lot.

Things may be a long time ago, but history shapes the present country. And it shapes present lives. A lot of jewish people (and other people) live where they live today, because their ancestors had to leave countries in ww2. So what happened in ww2 affects their present lives

And stories are passed down through generations, the stories are never lost. The people remember.

I learned about things the black and tan soldiers did in ireland because my grandad told my mum what he saw. He died before i was born. But my mum passed the stories down to me

https://curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/da556505-f5fb-4921-869f-e0983fd80e50/SCSEC20_History_syllabus_eng.pdf

The current Irish Leaving Cert history syllabus (pdf) in detail (47 pages of content).

I’m Scottish. The whole highland clearances has become a bit of a political football to try and politicise young people against the English. Bad things happened but I don’t want a victim mentality about it. I’d caution Irish people to also resist it. Holds you back in my opinion. Understand your history but respect it not wear it.

I have not read the whole thread but famine is a misnomer, it was a genocide.

Talking about schools. I think i know a bit about A levels, but not all? so i wanted to ask.
Are A levels for two years, yes? And students pick three subjects, yes?

In Ireland, at the equivalent age of A levels, I had to study seven subjects for Leaving certificate. Seven was mandatory. You could study more, but you had to do a minimum of seven.

Pros and cons of both systems. You could say that English A levels have a very narrow focus, so students don't learn much. You could also say that maybe Ireland expects too much at that age

It was also a famine. Even if a famine is caused by humans, and not natural causes, famine is still the correct word.

Yes it was a genocide aswell.

It's depth over breadth OP. English kids do up to 12 GCSEs. They still don't learn about Ireland.

I entirely agree with you but unfortunately too many of my fellow Irish people are fully on board the victim train

It depends upon how many hours they are expected to do in class for each subject over the year - an A level comprises a minimum of 180 hours per academic year, 360 for the course plus independent study, then there could be 4 A levels or an Extended Project Qualification, additional GCSEs or vocational qualifications, minimum requirements for outside school participation (eg, in A level PE or Music/Music theory/Drama), plus careers, PSHEE, core PE, etc.

A quick google of the tuition requirements for the Leaving Certificate/curriculum planning for JCT suggests it's 2-240-ish for subjects spread over three years instead.

It was not a genocide.

What constitutes as being onboard the victim train? Genuinely want to know. I can’t see anyone playing the victim, just wanting to understand the history and I think it’s important.

Especially seeing as the consequences of British colonialism are still being felt in Northern Ireland.
Imagine having to share a city with the man that killed your family, and having to bump in to him several times after knowing he was released from prison under the GFA, but also knowing that it was better than the alternative of having even more of your family killed.

How do you work that one out?

Wow if your great grand mother was of child bearing age during the famine, that would mean she was born between 1810 and 1830? Which would mean your grand mother was born between 1830 and 1850, and your mother or father between 1850 and perhaps 1890, soooo you’re what, aged between 115 and 155 years old. Wow, a true miracle!

I am 55 and my great grandmother was born in 1884, some 32 years after the end of the famine, but yes I’m sure your great grandmother lived and bore your grandparents between 1845 and 1852, that’s very believable

The leaving certificate is two years, not three.

It was a genocide. A million people died, directly because of what another country did to them

It fits the definition of genocide.

Wanting to understand history is of course important. The problem is there is a tendency to want to divide history, which is almost always complicated, into heroes and villains and also to try to understand and judge the past according to modern attitudes and values. Of course the British Empire (of which Ireland was considered a home nation and in which many Irish people participated) did terrible things. The history of British rule in Ireland is complex. The British did awful things here. But to make it such a central part of Irish identity and to continue to let it colour relations today is neither helpful nor productive IMO.

There was no intent to deliberately kill a million people. Nobody planned it and many British people attempted to ameliorate it.

Well that's completely wrong! Learn your history

The famine was caused by some British people at the time. They stole people's land amd then they stole people's food.

If you steal food, you are intending to cause death.

When they saw people starving to death, they still exported food out of the country.

I have a history degree, I do know my history.

Some British people exporting food despite fact that people were starving is terrible, an atrocity - but not a genocide

British. Not just the English