Keir Starmer went to private school

[Asking4afrend]

AIBU to be shocked that Keir Starmer went to private school? Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. So he enjoyed an excellent education which increased his social mobility and then wants to bring down the system that helped him, even when they gave him a 100% bursary so that his parents didn’t have to pay the fees?

This is from wiki:

Starmer passed the 11-plus examination and gained entry to Reigate Grammar School, which at the time was a voluntary-aidedselective grammar school.[1][12] The school converted into an independent fee-paying school in 1976, while he was a student. The terms of the conversion were such that his parents were not required to pay for his schooling until he turned 16, and when he reached that point, the school, by now a charity, awarded him a bursary that allowed him to complete his education there without any parental contribution.

I only found out about this today when I was googling the school for another reason and looked up the alumni. What a hypocrite. You didn’t hear about this in the election during all his “my father was a toolmaker” speeches.

Good luck to those people who have benefited from a rise in house prices!
I'm in favour of a much smaller State.
As Thatcher said, there's no such thing as "society", there are individual men and women and there are families.
I'm happy with private schools, private healthcare and essential spending on infrastructure, defence etc.
I guess my politics are different to yours, and that's fine.

Well, of course it makes no sense. Not my analogy, though!

I didn't realise that the UK tax system worked on a benefit analysis?

I fear much of the government seem as surprised by this as you.

So, no answer to my question, then. Fine.

My politics at the moment are None of the Above. Until there's more sanity, common sense, pragmatism and competence I don't expect this to change.

I wish we would call it the Secondary Modern system. Because that is essentially what it is.
And I wish that all the “my father was a plough boy with no shoes who, because of the grammar school, got a first from Oxford and became an Astro physicist” would acknowledge that it’s only a tiny minority of poor working class kids went to grammar school at any point in the history of the system. And the number going to Oxbridge could be counted on the toes of a sloth-they were the preserve of the privately educated. Comprehensive schools are far more likely to send disadvantaged kids to university. The playing field is pretty slopey still-but it’s a bit more level.

The government is constantly paying itself tax. Haven’t you noticed all the public sector workers paring NI and income tax? And even for VAT on private schools - where children are placed in a private school by councils (specialist or not) the council pays VAT on their fees.

Nobody ever wants to answer the question about house price inflation and inheritance tax - I guess because it’s irrefutable fact. I always ask it when people whinge about IHT.

So while I agree that VAT on private schools may make the odd family decide they can no longer afford it overall the impact on the Treasury is forecast to be a positive gain from a financial pov. I don;t know why you say it causes a net loss???

The forecast figures show a big gain.

Exchequer impact (£ million)

2024 to 2025+ 460 million
2025 to 2026+ 1,505
2026 to 2027+ 1,560
2027 to 2028+ 1,610
2028 to 2029+ 1,665
2029 to 2030+ 1,725

This being the figures forecast by the best man of a labour minister?

Ni and income tax isn't VAT. Plus it's the individual who is paying it, not the company. Obviously the wages come from the government but I guess the alternative of paying a lower wage and no income tax is too complicated.

The fact that state schools don't have an income unlike private schools still stands.

What happens when house prices fall?

I think it’s worse that he’s a Sir. He didn’t have to accept that (unlike school where he probably didn’t have much say).

apologies in advance if someone else has already said this!

The government also pays VAT - Including on private school fees where they pay the bill

Fewer people have estates that attract inheritance tax and more people are able to buy. What do you think happens?

Well I will wait for you to show me some impartial figures saying it's causing a loss to the Treasury.

Civil servants in the Treasury are impartial. I would assume it's them that came up with the forecast though I don't know for sure. But no politician can just pluck figures out their arse with no grounds for those figures. Yes, they're a forecast but a forecast based on private school numbers/income.

I have not seen a mass exodus to state schools like people were predicting, does not seem to be happening. Are there any impartial figures saying how many pupils have left?

They are paying the fees for a minimal number of pupils and I'm sure that will have been taken into account when deciding to impose VAT on school fees. Overall there will still be a massive net gain for the treasury.

I don't understand. They get a budget based on the number of pupils on roll, don't they? What's that if not an income?

Given that he was probably only 10 when his parents selected his secondary school options, it's hardly his fault.

I'm a few years older than Starmer, and I also went to a private secondary school because, like him, I passed the 11+ with flying colours and that was what my parents chose for me.

It was actually a radicalising experience for me, going from the roughest council estate in Croydon, where no-one had a pot to piss in, to an environment where some of my peers had ponies and went skiing every year. It opened my eyes to how much people's life chances were affected by social class and how much money their parents had.

I had no idea what a privileged education I had until after I left school and started to mix more with people who hadn't passed their 11+. Their schools didn't have anything like the facilities or opportunities that mine had.

All schools should be as good as private schools imo.

Hmmm interesting first post🙄

I meant an earlier point in the thread - if you want to tax house price inflation.

Not his choice where he went to school? Who cares.

You can call it an income if you like, I would disagree. It's a budget per pupil to pay for staffing, building repairs, consumables, energy bills. Most state schools are struggling to break even - they're turning the heating down, teachers are having to buy their own classroom equipment, TAs are getting laid off, pupils who have documented evidence of needing 1-1 support aren't getting it because there's no money.

So that budget is VERY different to a fee paying school's income which ultimately is about ensuring there is a profit for a private company.

When the public were polled on this only about 20% of people thought adding VAT to private school fees was a bad idea. It's one of the most popular changes Labour has made and has widespread support. People who disagree with it need to face it that they're in the minority and that the figures support it both from a popularity pov and from the fact it will put money into the treasury. And yes that money can be spent on levelling up state schools, which I'm very happy about.

Council’s also offset VAT. But that isn’t the point. You said If a government funded/tax payer funded state school paid tax who would they be paying tax to? Surely it’s daft to effectively pay tax to yourself?. I am pointing out that the government paying tax to itself is pretty standard practice.

On a bursary! He would have been 16 years old and perhaps he didn't have a choice. I am a similar age to KS and I know at 16 my parents would have still been making the decisions for me.

Does it really matter? Who actually give a fuck?

So that budget is VERY different to a fee paying school's income which ultimately is about ensuring there is a profit for a private company.

Schools that are charities are not charities not private companies. They are not profit-making.