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Massive changes to curriculum, is it too late to change this?

201 replies

nycortaki · 19/05/2025 20:56

This is not just about stonehenge, it is massive changes to maths, science, history, literature - phrases such as moving of goal posts and rewriting history do not come close!

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt32eQXiSgw

OP posts:
nycortaki · 04/06/2025 09:38

SuziQuinto · 27/05/2025 20:59

Indeed. Thankfully we do!.

You do? Could you possibly answer my question about what source material that poster was referring to in that case? What source material are we talking about here? If it exists, and it goes against what is said in the video, please link. Thanks.

OP posts:
Talipesmum · 04/06/2025 09:43

nycortaki · 04/06/2025 09:36

"get up off their fundament and do their own research" - well, if you think there is any information at all on the web which is open source, which I have asked for here, please link.

Lots of seemingly clever remarks, but the reality, with all due respect, is that none of you seem to know what you are talking about.

Edited

It doesn’t exist yet. The consultation only closed a few months ago. None of the opinion pieces you’re linking to refer to the recommendations. Why do you think there are exact detailed recommendations yet? Also, the report says that there will be more to do after the final report is finished - there will be further phases.

Next steps for subject changes
To this end, our interim report sets out our next steps. As well as analysing these issues, we will recommend a phased programme of work on different subjects, some of which will be conducted under the auspices of the review and some of which will be commissioned for following phases. This will allow reforms to be made gradually in a way that ensures they can be implemented effectively and that does not destabilise the system.

LookingAtMyBhunas · 04/06/2025 09:43

PonyPatter44 · 20/05/2025 20:18

I suppose it would be useful if schools taught children that overwrought YouTube videos are not a valid substitute for actually reading the source material and drawing your own conclusions.

Hahahahahhaha BOOM

mic drop

OP, can you answer this - What does 'Woke' mean?

nycortaki · 04/06/2025 09:45

LookingAtMyBhunas · 04/06/2025 09:43

Hahahahahhaha BOOM

mic drop

OP, can you answer this - What does 'Woke' mean?

boom?

yes, it is answered in one of my earlier posts. could you read the posts before jumping on the bandwagon?

OP posts:
CurlewKate · 04/06/2025 09:46

I have never yet come across anyone whose opinion is worth anything who told me to “do my own research”. You made the assertion-you back it up. “What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence”

nycortaki · 04/06/2025 09:47

Talipesmum · 04/06/2025 09:43

It doesn’t exist yet. The consultation only closed a few months ago. None of the opinion pieces you’re linking to refer to the recommendations. Why do you think there are exact detailed recommendations yet? Also, the report says that there will be more to do after the final report is finished - there will be further phases.

Next steps for subject changes
To this end, our interim report sets out our next steps. As well as analysing these issues, we will recommend a phased programme of work on different subjects, some of which will be conducted under the auspices of the review and some of which will be commissioned for following phases. This will allow reforms to be made gradually in a way that ensures they can be implemented effectively and that does not destabilise the system.

As I said about, final review is due in autumn of this year. When will recommendations be made public? There are a lot of articles on the web saying that more attention needs to be paid to the proposed changes - so when will we see them?

There is a general perception that we are talking about an attempted dumbing down, rewriting of history and subject matter (leaving out huge areas of previously taught curriculum and replacing it with made up information, rewriting the English language, saying that Maths is an invention of white male supremacy and should not be taught...) - if this is all a pile of codswallop (we live in hope) then please could this be confirmed asap?

OP posts:
thepariscrimefiles · 04/06/2025 09:48

nycortaki · 22/05/2025 18:59

Oh dear more gaslighting and rudeness.

Bollocks, that was a really interesting and informative post from a very knowledgeable poster.

Your posts are deliberately provocative and invite challenge.

nycortaki · 04/06/2025 09:52

thepariscrimefiles · 04/06/2025 09:48

Bollocks, that was a really interesting and informative post from a very knowledgeable poster.

Your posts are deliberately provocative and invite challenge.

It wasn't, she was misrepresenting what had been said in the video and the think tank report, her thinking did not take things to their logical conclusion and the last few lines were rude and gaslighting.

I am not being either provocative or challenging here. All i want is clear information. I don't have time for challenging posters. I am pushing back on what I think is wrong thinking because it needs to be pushed back on. That is being straightforward, not provocative.

OP posts:
thepariscrimefiles · 04/06/2025 09:54

nycortaki · 22/05/2025 18:55

That is what wiki says, but they say they are independent and they are extremely clear and factual with their methodology, and comprehensive.

I am a traditional left winger along the lines of the tony benn type. We no longer have left vs right in any real sense, however, we have extreme liberal vs not extreme liberal ranging from left to right. So a lot of trad left and liberal people are objecting to what is being done by the extreme liberals.

'That is what wiki says, but they say they are independent'

To slightly mis-quote Mandy Rice Davies, well they would say that, wouldn't they?

nycortaki · 04/06/2025 09:55

thepariscrimefiles · 04/06/2025 09:54

'That is what wiki says, but they say they are independent'

To slightly mis-quote Mandy Rice Davies, well they would say that, wouldn't they?

are you being provocative and challenging here?

OP posts:
nycortaki · 04/06/2025 09:57

@pointythings just to be more clear about your post - you say

"And actully, you don't need to stick exclusively to facts in order to teach your students to think critically, make connections and produce cogent theories and arguments. Analysing different interpretations does the same, as long as the student is taught to understand that sometimes, there are no certainties"

If you are teaching pupils all versions of interpretation, that is fine. If you are teaching them only your versions, that is not fine. I did cover this in an earlier post.

OP posts:
pointythings · 04/06/2025 10:11

Of course high levels of literacy, maths and historical knowledge are important. I never said they were not, and I approved of the changes to GCSEs other than English where it was possible to lose marks for poor spelling, punctuation and grammar.

In terms of maths, there is a baseline everyone should meet and it could do with tweaking to include a better understanding of data and statistics and how these can be used to manipulate. Mathematical critical thinking, if you will.

On history, I would like to know what you consider 'knowledge',because regurgitating dates and events without context and debate is useless. History isn't a black/white wrong/right kind of subject, though some people would like it to be.

pointythings · 04/06/2025 10:13

nycortaki · 04/06/2025 09:52

It wasn't, she was misrepresenting what had been said in the video and the think tank report, her thinking did not take things to their logical conclusion and the last few lines were rude and gaslighting.

I am not being either provocative or challenging here. All i want is clear information. I don't have time for challenging posters. I am pushing back on what I think is wrong thinking because it needs to be pushed back on. That is being straightforward, not provocative.

Edited

'Wrong thinking'?

Have you read 1984?

thepariscrimefiles · 04/06/2025 10:15

nycortaki · 04/06/2025 09:55

are you being provocative and challenging here?

I'm challenging their assertion that they are independent. They are a conservative think tanks with very opaque funding arrangements so no-one knows who actually funds them.

The funding transparency website 'Who Funds You' gave Policy Exchange an E grade, the lowest transparency rating.

CurlewKate · 04/06/2025 10:26

I have to say, I am curious about the woke take on Stonehenge….

nycortaki · 04/06/2025 10:31

@pointythings also you asked why rap couldn't be studied instead of poetry. The reason is firstly that rap is full of inappropriate content which would not suitable for children (including teens), and in relation to pop as a whole very, very little has content of literary merit. I love all kinds of music including pop, rock, jazz so i am not knocking it, it is more that you are going to struggle to find much to analyse in the words and structure. Whereas good poetry is full of literary content and merit. There is some pretty awful poetry too, it is a question of finding really good poetry to analyse, and to also enjoy pop music on the side.

Rap has no place with kids.

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 04/06/2025 10:40

nycortaki · 04/06/2025 09:33

Just to be clear, the final report is due in Autumn 2025 - so we are getting very close which is worrying if you are saying that there are no concrete proposals yet.

I'm pretty sure that the correct way to come up with detailed proposals is to consider what the evidence says for the current situation first in order to avoid change for change's sake or having negative outcomes from not understanding. It's then necessary to consider what measures may be positive, neutral, cost effective and possible to implement.

I appreciate that for some, the concept of fact checking and getting full report data before making decisions, assumptions or declarations can be unfamiliar, but it is actually quite normal.

Talipesmum · 04/06/2025 10:47

nycortaki · 04/06/2025 09:47

As I said about, final review is due in autumn of this year. When will recommendations be made public? There are a lot of articles on the web saying that more attention needs to be paid to the proposed changes - so when will we see them?

There is a general perception that we are talking about an attempted dumbing down, rewriting of history and subject matter (leaving out huge areas of previously taught curriculum and replacing it with made up information, rewriting the English language, saying that Maths is an invention of white male supremacy and should not be taught...) - if this is all a pile of codswallop (we live in hope) then please could this be confirmed asap?

Edited

There are always articles with people discussing, criticising, arguing about the curriculum. Here’s what we should do, here’s why schools are awful, here’s why teachers can’t be trusted, here’s how “woke is taking over”, disregard for British Values, disregard for progress, better in my day, too slow to change etc etc. The “general perception” is just people sounding off, some may have some foundation, plenty doesn’t.

Just because people are discussing their thoughts on the curriculum doesn’t mean they have any input or insider information. The video you linked right at the start is NOT talking about the findings or recommendations of the curriculum review. It only mentions it in passing.

I’d have thought that the final review will contain some recommendations that will be published in the final review, in the autumn, and some more info on plans for further work on some curriculum areas.

pointythings · 04/06/2025 10:57

nycortaki · 04/06/2025 10:31

@pointythings also you asked why rap couldn't be studied instead of poetry. The reason is firstly that rap is full of inappropriate content which would not suitable for children (including teens), and in relation to pop as a whole very, very little has content of literary merit. I love all kinds of music including pop, rock, jazz so i am not knocking it, it is more that you are going to struggle to find much to analyse in the words and structure. Whereas good poetry is full of literary content and merit. There is some pretty awful poetry too, it is a question of finding really good poetry to analyse, and to also enjoy pop music on the side.

Rap has no place with kids.

That's such a sweeping statement that I am drawn to the conclusion that you have not listened to any rap music at all, ever. Because while quite a lot of rap music is inappropriate, not all of it is.

How do you define 'literary merit'? Because that is also a matter of opinion and a movable feast. You can't say 'this is literature and nothing else is' because new literature is being written even now. You seem to want things set in stone; that is a bad foundation for education.

Also could you please point me to the source of your assertion that anyone is seriously proposing we abolish teaching maths because it is a patriarchal construct? Someone reputable, that is.

CurlewKate · 04/06/2025 11:43

I just had a look at the video. Julia Hartley Brewer talking to an ex head teacher who had not read the book they are talking about…..

CurlewKate · 04/06/2025 11:49

@nycortakiSource for maths not being taught because it’s a patriarchal concept, please?

BIWI · 04/06/2025 11:53

You might find this interesting, @nycortaki

https://poemanalysis.com/poetry-explained/is-rap-poetry/

I suspect you won’t care/agree though. Oh, and there’s plenty of bad language in Shakespeare, which I suspect you believe schoolchildren should study. Importantly (and interestingly) we might not understand it as bad language nowadays, although it would have been very clear in an earlier century context.

https://www.rsc.org.uk/shakespeare/language/slang-and-sexual-language

CurlewKate · 04/06/2025 14:36

i was hoping for more information….?

pointythings · 04/06/2025 14:54

CurlewKate · 04/06/2025 14:36

i was hoping for more information….?

We hope in vain because of course this assertion was BS.

Haemagoblin · 04/06/2025 15:20

nycortaki · 04/06/2025 10:31

@pointythings also you asked why rap couldn't be studied instead of poetry. The reason is firstly that rap is full of inappropriate content which would not suitable for children (including teens), and in relation to pop as a whole very, very little has content of literary merit. I love all kinds of music including pop, rock, jazz so i am not knocking it, it is more that you are going to struggle to find much to analyse in the words and structure. Whereas good poetry is full of literary content and merit. There is some pretty awful poetry too, it is a question of finding really good poetry to analyse, and to also enjoy pop music on the side.

Rap has no place with kids.

So would you think that Drama/Literature/History students would gain no advantage form studying a cultural artefact like 'Hamilton', then? You really don't believe there is any literary or artistic merit in the lyrics, anything to be learned about revisionist narratives from the radical take on an obscure figure in American history and the analysis of what 'history' and 'legacy' mean and how they are constructed.... NOTHING of any value? Because Hamilton, without question, is rap.