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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

SATS cheating - by the Head!

561 replies

Dilemmaramma · 16/05/2025 21:16

In my DC’s final SATS exam yesterday, the headteacher was overseeing and they picked up DC’s paper, DURING the exam, flicked through it, then rubbed out one of the answers and told DC to try again. They also pointed out another wrong answer and indicated DC should re-do that question.

This is clear cut cheating, right?

YABU - don’t report it, the whole year group could get their SATS voided and they’ll be devastated
YANBU - this is appalling and the Head needs to be investigated

OP posts:
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ThatBusyRoseLion · 17/05/2025 07:43

I'm sure those of you who say this is ok would have looked at the Ofsted report for the school they were planning to send their DC to. Even though they don't say it, the SATs results have a huge impact on the report. Any school that does not do well is likely to get a bad report and vice versa. That would be why the Head was cheating - to save their own skin.

Dilemmaramma · 17/05/2025 07:43

Have read every reply, still hugely conflicted. I’m thinking of writing a letter to the head this weekend, and going to see them for a meeting next week.

They have clearly cheated. I’m not OK with that. But I’m worried about the implications for the children and the teaching staff of reporting it. Furious to have been put in this position, frankly.

OP posts:
GPBlues · 17/05/2025 07:46

Justmovehousethen · 17/05/2025 07:43

Completely incorrect.

My other DD “failed” her SATs. Same school.

You are entirely wrong and have zero understanding how this works.

Google it if you don’t believe the many people on this thread telling you otherwise.

You’re conflating what happened to your individual child with cohort level statistics. It is very apparent what level children are working at in secondary. Teachers do not put children struggling in middle/top sets for 5 years because of what their SAT score was.

DownToBusiness · 17/05/2025 07:48

Yeah the headteacher was not doing it to help the child. As if. They were doing it to help themselves- so their school would do better than it deserves too. I don't imagine for a moment that this was the only child they cheated with.
As for an independent school head PP condoning and excusing cheating, that is very disappointing behaviour.

Brickiscool · 17/05/2025 07:50

Secondary base sets on a combination k SATs, CATs, teachers reports and a few other things. They also swap sets about all the time after actually getting to know the kids. So two answers isn't going to effect this

IButtleSir · 17/05/2025 07:51

RupertTheBear · 17/05/2025 07:31

I’ve been teaching y6 (and am also SLT) for over 15 years and am lucky to work in a school where we follow the rules! I do put 2 adults in every room but I do this to protect my staff should there be an allegation of maladministration made. This is clear in the test administration guidance as a recommendation not a rule:

Headteachers will need to consider the staff resource required to administer the tests. We recommend having at least 2 test administrators in each test room, so the headteacher can have confidence in the integrity of test administration.

Our SATS results are important to us as a school (not the individual children) we do take them seriously but they aren’t so important that we would risk jobs by cheating.

Note the word 'recommend', @Orangesinthebag and @DidStart. It's rather a crucial one.

Justmovehousethen · 17/05/2025 07:52

DownToBusiness · 17/05/2025 07:48

Yeah the headteacher was not doing it to help the child. As if. They were doing it to help themselves- so their school would do better than it deserves too. I don't imagine for a moment that this was the only child they cheated with.
As for an independent school head PP condoning and excusing cheating, that is very disappointing behaviour.

Incorrect.

SATS are pointless.

SATS are not a clear indicator of how well a school performs.

Our school is a military school - sometimes 40% of the year group can be students that have only just arrived several months before. If the SATS results are low, that’s not an indication that the school is shit, which it isn’t.

Justmovehousethen · 17/05/2025 07:53

GPBlues · 17/05/2025 07:46

You are entirely wrong and have zero understanding how this works.

Google it if you don’t believe the many people on this thread telling you otherwise.

You’re conflating what happened to your individual child with cohort level statistics. It is very apparent what level children are working at in secondary. Teachers do not put children struggling in middle/top sets for 5 years because of what their SAT score was.

Edited

That’s what I said. 😂

Reenskar · 17/05/2025 07:55

Chickoletta · 16/05/2025 21:41

👋 Secondary teacher and SLT here. I can promise you that primary SATS are not used to predict GCSE grades. Even if they were, your child’s results are not dependent on a prediction, so it makes FA difference.

Erm- clearly not a member of SLT from a UK school then? Apart from the current hiatus, historically SATs data has been used-
schoolsweek.co.uk/no-school-progress-measure-for-next-two-years/

KellySeveride · 17/05/2025 07:56

I’m not going to tell you to report or not report. However the headteacher at my kids junior school was sacked just after my eldest child started there for falsifying SATS results. She was otherwise a good headteacher and probably never worked in a school again.

Morally wrong, but SATS are not important to the child,only an indicator of school performance so think carefully about the life you will ruin and the reasons why before you do anything.

You can teach your own kids what she did wasn’t the norm and why it may be wrong without turning a world upside down.

BookArt55 · 17/05/2025 07:56

Dilemmaramma · 16/05/2025 21:25

My understanding is that some secondary schools assign sets based on SATS scores, and they’re also used to predict GCSE grades. So if a child has scored higher than they should have, it’s not particularly helpful really, as they may be placed in the ‘wrong’ set, or be under pressure to attain unrealistic grades. I don’t see this as having ‘helped’ my child at all.

Yes what you stated about secondary schools is correct. The government like SATa because jt helps to show progress, etc. Secondary are forced to use English and Maths SATs to predict GCSEs in all subjects like Languages, DT, Art, which is ridiculous.
But unfortunately students often show up to secondary with very high SATs that they never live up to. Repeatedly told they aren't making necessary levels of progress, underachieving or other equivalent wording. Students then struggle with confidence and motivation as they are still working hard but not able to match those gcse predictions.
Because, let's face it, lots of primary schools do exactly what your head did. They spoon feed/cheat/ support a bit too much. Which helps the kid in the moment, helps the primary school look like they have brought the progress of that child on so, so much... but long term it doesn't help the child.

GPBlues · 17/05/2025 07:56

Justmovehousethen · 17/05/2025 07:52

Incorrect.

SATS are pointless.

SATS are not a clear indicator of how well a school performs.

Our school is a military school - sometimes 40% of the year group can be students that have only just arrived several months before. If the SATS results are low, that’s not an indication that the school is shit, which it isn’t.

We have the same issue with large changes in school demographic between and in-years so it’s not a ‘fair’ representation.

So completely understand your point, and I’m not arguing for SATs but you can also say that not all schools have the same level of transience.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 17/05/2025 07:58

The problem with this kind of prior attainment data is that it is pretty accurate if used to predict the GCSE scores of whole cohorts of students, but not individuals. There are too many variables about an individual student, and data can be skewed by cheating headteachers or various other things.

But once measuring methods like this became a thing, they were soon used as a stick to beat teachers with, rather than to inform schools and government about more general, cohort-wide trends, and the blunt instrument data began to be believed over the actual expertise and knowledge of their classes that teachers have. In education these days, everything must be measured and tracked. As someome once said, weighing your pig every day doesn't make it fatter.

TeenToTwenties · 17/05/2025 08:02

Maybe people are getting confused between 'predict' and 'target'.

SATs are used for target grades against which the secondary school is measured in Progress8 on a cohort level.

Whether the secondary school choose to share those targets with the students & parents is another matter.
Schools will also predict grades for individuals based on actual progress and attainment.

Justmovehousethen · 17/05/2025 08:04

GPBlues · 17/05/2025 07:56

We have the same issue with large changes in school demographic between and in-years so it’s not a ‘fair’ representation.

So completely understand your point, and I’m not arguing for SATs but you can also say that not all schools have the same level of transience.

Absolutely.

I just think that SATS are a complete and utter waste of time and the angst that some parents go through and put onto their children is ridiculous.

No one asks at a job interview how you did in your SATS.

Secondary schools move you around, do their own tests, find your place in your year group, not because of SATS.

The SATS are not a clear indicator of a school, when they aren’t a school that just has a September intake with no starters or influx of starters throughout a year.

So they are just not a fair representation of anything or anyone.

Joyunlimited · 17/05/2025 08:05

MyLimeGuide · 17/05/2025 06:27

I doubt a few questions hinted are going to make much difference, maybe he was being kind? Is your child known to be intelligent and he felt sorry for him for making too many obvious mistakes? Maybe he's just a really kind man!! Don't be a dick and report him.

"Being kind"? Involving a child in cheating in a public examination, and teaching them that’s an acceptable thing to do, is "being kind"? Blimey.

noblegiraffe · 17/05/2025 08:07

Progress 8 doesn't measure pupils against target grades. Pupils may be assigned computer generated target grades from KS2 SATs results but they are nothing to do with how Progress 8 is calculated.

Progress 8 is measured after GCSE results are in and compares how students actually did in their GCSEs compared to other students who got the same score in their SATs. Progress 8 is a measure after the event, not a prediction before it and depends on how that cohort did in their GCSEs.

Coffeeteasugar · 17/05/2025 08:07

KIlliePieMyOhMy · 16/05/2025 21:31

Sorry SATS are used as predictions for GCSEs that take place 5 years later.
That's crazy, if true.

we have to use Baseline tests taken when a child is 4 or 5 to decide whether a child is making expected progress throughout primary. It’s crazy!

Rabhhhd · 17/05/2025 08:09

This happened back in 2012 at my DS's school. The school took the less academic kids into a separate room and just told them the answers. It's done to make the school look better.

I remember googling about this back then and it's honestly really common and I don't think Ofsted actually care.

Joyunlimited · 17/05/2025 08:09

KellySeveride · 17/05/2025 07:56

I’m not going to tell you to report or not report. However the headteacher at my kids junior school was sacked just after my eldest child started there for falsifying SATS results. She was otherwise a good headteacher and probably never worked in a school again.

Morally wrong, but SATS are not important to the child,only an indicator of school performance so think carefully about the life you will ruin and the reasons why before you do anything.

You can teach your own kids what she did wasn’t the norm and why it may be wrong without turning a world upside down.

"May be" wrong? How can cheating in a public examination (in a way specifically prohibited in the administration guidance) not be wrong?

Azdcgbjml · 17/05/2025 08:10

Haggisfish3 · 16/05/2025 22:16

They absolutely do make a difference to secondary school. They are measured on how closely their students achieve their gcse grades which are, on the whole, predicted by sats. Schools can alter them internally but ultimately they are still judged on the government grades done by sats. It means some high schools can do a brilliant job with their students, but get rubbish value added because their original ‘values’ were artificially high because of primary schools cheating on sats. So, yes, it’s ‘only’ a school measure but how many on here chose their schools
or where to live based on ofsted reports? The students i feel most sorry for are the ones who are coached and cajoled through them to get good results which boost the primary’s value added, but then give them stupidly high targets in secondary so they spend their whole secondary career feeling like they aren’t good enough. The sats should be done unseen and unpractised. Like the cats tests, which are still done by some school, but these are not funded and are expensive for schools to do.

Yes. In secondary I have seen a girl sobbing because she wasn't meeting her targets and the teacher very patiently explaining how they were set from SATs and were fairly meaningless to try and comfort her that she was doing her best and that is good enough.

throwaway25 · 17/05/2025 08:10

Our local secondary has an intake into Year 7 where at least a third of the children come from independent schools. No SATS in indies, so does this mean they’re irrelevant to that state secondary? I don’t really understand the point of SATS if not everyone actually takes them. Would love someone to explain them to me!

DownToBusiness · 17/05/2025 08:11

Justmovehousethen · 17/05/2025 07:52

Incorrect.

SATS are pointless.

SATS are not a clear indicator of how well a school performs.

Our school is a military school - sometimes 40% of the year group can be students that have only just arrived several months before. If the SATS results are low, that’s not an indication that the school is shit, which it isn’t.

Not commenting on your school or its circumstances. I don't know them. I'm commenting on the headteacher who IS cheating to falsely improve their school's published performance. That is why they are cheating. And any head who condones cheating in SATs is a disgrace. If your school has a genuine reason for lower performance then obviously it will be known and understood by those associated with the school. It's not a reason to condone cheating by a headteacher- or anyone in charge of educating children.

PinataHeeHaw · 17/05/2025 08:13

I agree. Some people are just strange. Ignore them, op.

kingdom01 · 17/05/2025 08:13

So the Head only corrected your DC, no one else? Why on Earth would they do that

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