To wonder how people feel about this recent Tory admission in relation to Brexit

[MrsBennetsPoorNerves]

I haven't seen any discussion about the recently leaked admission by the former Tory immigration minister about how his government had failed to anticipate the impact that Brexit would have on the small boats issue. I would be particularly interested to know what Brexit supporters feel about this.

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-recording-reveals-top-tory-knew-of-flaws-in-post-brexit-plan-to-return-illegal-migrants-13367821

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-brexit-small-boats-asylum-philp-b2751177.html 

People say stuff on zoom calls. That’s why leaks expose them as weaker than measured and briefed statements.

Surely you believe the German politician though and don’t think he’s making it up? As the quote says the data speaks for itself.

So that leaves you with a DA that could never do what CP is claiming.

And then so what? An agreement that doesn’t work for returns is no longer in place. It makes no
difference that it’s gone.

If anyone wants a plan see countries that make it work…

Thanks @EasternStandard, I've got the point that you don't agree with the Shadow Home Secretary's assessment of the mistakes that were made when he was Immigration Minister. I'd still like to hear what other people think.

As long as you can take on board data I’m happy. And read a quote from a German politician who is in the DA without blanking it.

On Brexit supporters, I think they tend to avoid mn threads from what I can see, I can’t think why ;

I love a bit of data and would be happy to look at yours when I have time to do so properly. This might involve looking for supplementary data from other sources, as I like to get a balanced picture. Same with the quote from the German politician. Always good to gather information from multiple sources.

Thanks! I’d appreciate that. You might find more info, I’m happy to see it.

He is lying by omission regarding the low return rate under Dublin (to justify the Rwanda plan?) although of course the clip is edited and we don't know if he did mention it. From your link;

“When we did check it out, just before we exited the EU transitional arrangements on 31 December 2020, we did run some checks and found that about half the people crossing the channel had claimed asylum previously elsewhere in Europe – in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, somewhere like that, and therefore could have been returned."

Nick Timothy MP
But in the last year we were able to use the Dublin Regulation [2020] as this rule is called, only 105 out of more than 8,500 requests by Britain were granted – just 1.2 per cent of the total.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/05/rishi-can-stop-illegal-immigration-keeps-european-court-quiet/

In 2019, there were 2,236 requests from other member states to transfer individuals into the UK under the Dublin Regulation. There were 714 transfers into the UK under the Dublin Regulation. The majority (496) of these transfers came from Greece.
Over the same period, there were 3,258 requests from the UK to transfer individuals out of the UK to other member states. There were 263 transfers out of the UK under the Dublin Regulation. Of these transfers, 104 (40%) were transfers to Germany and 53 (20%) were transfers to France.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-december-2019/how-many-people-do-we-grant-asylum-or-protection-to

In 2018, there were 1,940 requests from other member states to transfer individuals into the UK under the Dublin Regulation, and 5,510 requests from the UK to transfer individuals out of the UK to other member states.
Over the same period, there were 1,215 transfers into the UK under the Dublin Regulation. The majority (946) of these transfers came from Greece.
There were 209 transfers out of the UK under the Dublin Regulation. A quarter of these (51) were transfers to France.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-december-2018/how-many-people-do-we-grant-asylum-or-protection-to

August 2024
Ireland applied to send more than 2,750 asylum applicants back to the EU country where they first arrived or sought international protection, but has been able to return only 31, the Department of Justice has said.
*
^Over the past four years, Ireland has also received 626 “take back and take charge requests” from other EU countries and agreed to take responsibility for
182 of them, of which 54 have been carried out.^
*
The department admitted the system for inter-country transfers was not “fit for purpose” and that what is known as the Dublin Regulation had significant problems and was ineffective.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-applied-to-return-2758-asylum-seekers-in-the-past-four-years-but-only-31-were-sent-back/a593136726.html

The first rule in politics: don’t do anything you don’t absolutely have to. A referendum? Seriously.

David Cameron called it not in the national interest, but to placate his party. It was a move driven by internal Conservative politics, an attempt to preserve party unity and not by what was best for the country. In doing so, he put party before country.

Cameron triggered the vote at a moment when a large portion of the electorate was itching to rebel against anything associated with him. The mood was ripe for protest and Cameron became the symbol of what they wanted to reject.
Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn should have thrown unequivocal support behind the Remain campaign. He didn't, his long-standing Euroscepticism dulled Labour's message and left the Remain side fractured.

Brexit had a powerful slogan: “Take Back Control.”
It implied loss, grievance, and the promise of restoration. It was active, emotionally charged, and simple, a classic populist message, much like “Make America Great Again.” These slogans work because they suggest something was stolen and offer empowerment in return. What did Remain have, "Better Together" is a weak slogan in comparisum.

Much of the vote came down to poor information, misplaced assumptions and a failure to consider consequences. Many voters seemed to believe the UK could leave the EU yet still retain the benefits of membership. It wasn’t hard to understand what life outside the EU would look like, just look at any non-member country. Yet reasoned warnings were dismissed as “Project Fear”.
Sensible, measured arguments were mocked and ignored in favour of emotional appeals and empty promises.

Apologies... just having a rant!

The admission does not surprise me. They never thought it through as they never expected it to happen.

It doesn’t surprise me either. It was obvious at the time they were winging it.

Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell both rebelled against their party and voted in favour of an EU referendum in 2011;

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/oct/25/mp-voted-for-eu-referendum

And so did Caroline Lucas;
https://www.carolinelucas.com/latest/yes-to-an-eu-referendum

@atata this is such a Tory apologist's post. David Cameron instigated the most ruinous Brexit referendum seen in peacetime. The Tory's brought this on the country and we're significantly poorer for it. It's got nothing to do with Corbyn, he wasn't popular even as leader of the Labour party. He had little power. It's utterly irrelevant what he thought compared with the awful set of so called Leaders we've had since and including Cameron... He pressed the self destruct button and ran away. I can never forgive the Tory party for this disaster.

Though to be fair , and I can't believe I'm saying this, Cameron turned out to be the best of a bad bunch. Only because the bar was so pity fully low.

Civil servants are responsible for everything that happens and doesn't happen.
They're the ones who should know what to look at and guide ministers.
Are there lots of reports from them that the torys ignored?

Don’t be ridiculous

The crazy thing is how many people think Nigel Farage - the man who almost single handedly made brexit happen - is somehow the answer to the problem HE CAUSED. It's just madness.

You are aware are you not that many Conservatives were fiercely against Brexit and I Chris Philp was one of them.

What are you trying to tell us OP. That the Tories failed. Yeah, we know. They almost got wiped out at the last elections.

Hopefully they’ll soon get wiped out altogether, never to re surface again. The Tories deserve it.

Now the question is how do you get the short of shit Labour government out.

He is notoriously thick for a well educated man. He could have done it accidentally 🤣

Riiiight... Poor David Cameron, who chose to put the Brexit referendum in the Tory 2015 manifesto in the first place, thus initiating the whole thing (unlike the Labour party who resisted pressure to do so), had Brexit foisted upon him despite his honourable efforts to stop it.

Whereas Jeremy Corbyn, who supported Remain - but with caveats, and not as unequivocally as those with the luxury of ignoring the impossible position his party was wedged in between the Red Wall and Liberal Metropolitan London would have liked him to - is responsible for it.

Jolly good. Whatever you say.

Then there is the impact on legal immigration. Replacing young single east European ppl , who generally return to their home country , with ppl from Africa and South Asia who often want their families to join them .
Which makes sense for geographical and financial reasons of course. I'm not sure if this was envisaged by the Leave campaign. But I doubt it was the preferred outcome of most people who voted Leave.

I’m just amazed that anyone is still under the misapprehension that the people running this country want to halt the small boats “crisis”.

Totally indifferent.

Exactly. If they wanted to, they could stop it tomorrow. They just don’t want to.

Labour didn't exactly cover themselves in glory. The leader at the time was Jeremy Corbyn, who as a Marxist is pro Brexit . If you remember the Labour Party did not back Remain.