To ask if I should still alternate DC’s Christmas’ with EXH?

[christmasalternate]

DC (8&6) alternate Christmases with DH and I and my EXH and his family. EXH has them EOW. DH and I do absolutely everything for DC in financial and practical senses. EXH doesn’t pay maintenance (lies to CMS), I do absolutely everything school related, we buy all of their clothes, DH takes them to and from their clubs. EXH doesn’t even have clothes for them when they go to his, I have to send a bag of stuff. Obviously I’m not looking for praise on this, I’m just stressing that he does nothing practical for them. He picks them up EOW on a Friday evening, from mine, not school (he never would be there on time, usually picks them up 6-6:30 pm) and brings them back on a Sunday either at 4pm or 8pm, whichever suits him best and never the agreed 6pm, feeds them rubbish all weekend, let’s them stay up late and get out of their routine (which is a pain on Sunday evening/Monday morning as they’re exhausted). They’re due to go to his this Christmas but to be honest, I’m fed up of giving him half of the Christmas’ when DH& I do all of the parenting and everything for DC’s. If he was a proper co-parent then I really wouldn’t mind but he literally isn’t, even on the days he has them I have to wait and work my schedule around his pick-up/drop off time which is always much later or earlier than it’s supposed be. He lives with his parents and DD has recently told me that sometimes they’re watching the DC for most of the morning/early afternoon as he doesn’t get up but they’re up. Yes, I know I’m ranting a bit but AIBU to not alternate Christmas with him anymore based off what I’ve said?

I completely agree with you. He won't even pay for his own children - he's a disgrace. I bet his parents wish he'd bugger off out of their house, too. Give him fair warning and expect him to rebel, but stand firm.

I also think that's fair. However what do the DC want? Do they enjoy going? Christmas might be quite different to normal weekends if they are spending time with cousins and extended family.

Talk to your children.
Ask their opinion.
If they would prefer to stay with you, then do it.

Tell him he can have some other day.
What a waste of space.

1. Do you have an order from the court? If you do, then going against that is ill-advised.

If your arrangement is not court ordered, I would be more inclined to say that sticking with the regular EOW is what’s going to happen. But IANAL.

And do discuss it with the children.

I would advise you to do what I did in a not entirely dissimilar situation, which is to base the DCs' Christmas arrangements on whose house the DCs would have the nicer Christmas in. They are little for such a short time, trying to be fair on a pretty deadbeat NRP can result in unfairness on the children. If they would have a nicer Christmas with you, their dad can bugger off.

@Clownsythis is the thing. We’re having a baby next month and DC2 has already said that they want to spend Christmas with their new sister, but I know that if DC say to me or their dad that they want to be home this year, he’d emotionally guilt trip them into saying they want to go with him and DC1 will feel bad. He’s a child that wants things his own way.

@FetchezLaVacheI’m not trying to be cocky but I know for a fact that they’d have a nicer Christmas here. EXH doesn’t ask them what they want and buys them things that are really for him ie metal detectors; not all of their gifts, but the big ones are always gifts for himself really. I put a lot of effort in to make it really nice because, as you say, they’re only little for a few years, this is probably DD’s last Santa year, if she still believes by then.

@TheSandgroperno, no court order so I’m not breaking any rules if I do keep them. Of course I’ll discuss it with them, but he will emotionally guilt trip them into saying that they want to go to his, it’s so unfair on them.

YANBU. Without a court order Christmas access is a privilege not a right. Which quite frankly he’s done nothing to earn. I’d also tell him if he wants it to change he can step up and properly co-parent rather than Disney dad EOW.

Arrange an overnight access in the twixtmas period. I also wouldn’t put that on the children to decide at such a young age. It’s not fair to make them essentially choose between their parents.

It's not about you or him, it's about the children. If there's a risk that he would blackmail them, then you need to be the bigger person and stick to the arrangement if that's what the children expect.

If they start insisting they want to stay with tou and really make a point of it, then that's different, but until they do, don't mess things up when it's been working fine for them.

If he’s not paying CMS and doesn’t have his own place to house them then no I wouldn’t be sharing Xmas - in fact I wouldn’t be facilitating any contact until he sorts himself out and pays his way

Definitely ask the children, although it sounds like at least one wants to stay with you already.

He can take you to court if he wants access. And you can be stricter about pick up times that work for you. If he wants a time that's convenient you can say no. Make the children available for 30 mins at that time and if he doesn't turn up, decline contact. Although he could also decide to be difficult too.

Well then I would have a general chat and some time later YOU alone make the decision that you think is best.

Then TELL both him and the children this is YOUR decision and that this is what is happening.

No further discussion.
Just make it clear to him that the decision is yours.

What a waste of space.

Can you not alternate who has Christmas eve/Christmas day. So one of you has them Xmas eve and they come home lunchtime xmas day and spend the rest of the day with the other parent, and alternate it each year then you both get part of xmas with them.

@Imtoooldforallthisif I gave them to him on Xmas Eve, he’d not bring them back on Xmas day. We usually swap on Boxing Day.

@Imtoooldforallthisor if he did (which he wouldn’t) he’d fill them up on rubbish so that they wouldn’t want lunch.

@ClownsyI think that’s what I’ll do. DH is of the opinion that Xmas day is the day you decide ie in the past, we’ve just had Christmas as a normal day when the DC weren’t here and had our Christmas on Boxing Day whilst they had their Christmas at home. But for some reason, this year I resent them going when we do everything for them. He literally does nothing for them. However, it is about what’s best for DC. I’m going to gauge what they want subtly, although I know that when the baby is here, DC2 will not want to leave her for Christmas. Unsure yet if DC1 will feel the same way.

@MuggleMeI know and I keep thinking that but if I tell DC their dad will be here and give a time window to him, which he misses, they’ll be gutted if they can’t go.

@usererror57he pays nothing but lies to CMS so he’s not ‘legally’ obligated to. We’re actually on a decent income and if I pursued it, I’d get £7 a week I think from him which doesn’t feel worth the hassle. So that won’t change, nor will his living circumstances so then the DC would never see him, which I don’t think is in their best interest emotionally.

@vivainsomniayou’re right, I agree, although I do think that DC2 will definitely want to stay. And that makes it hard because I couldn’t split them up for Christmas.

@FiftynFookedI agree with the point it’s not fair to make them choose, it’d be me more gauging what they want, which is if they want to stay then saying to EXH that they’re staying and taking the fall out so that it’s not on them. The thing is, courts apparently don’t take into account income/jobs when it comes to custody. And even if they did, the likelihood that he’d get less than EOW is small.

I have every sympathy with you on this however from what you’ve said about ex H, I think the reality will be that even if you tell him he’ll still put pressure on the children and they’ll be caught in the middle anyway.

@christmasalternate I think you’re entirely reasonable and I would definitely not facilitate your deadbeat exH in any way.

However. It’s only May. The kids are little. Can I advise keeping your powder dry for as long as possible. Don’t turn this into a 7 month discussion. Make your mind up whenever you like and then calmly announce what’s happening much, much nearer the time.

If the kids ask now, just say oh it’s too early to think about Christmas but I am listening to what you are saying about wanting to be with the baby and I won’t forget.

Also, if you say nothing will exH proactively ask / assume what’s happening? I’d wait for him to make the first move on whatever plan he thinks is happening and then just say, actually this year I think it’s in DC best interests to have Xmas with us so I’ll drop them with you on xyz day (after Xmas not before!!). and if he doesn’t ask you just assumed he wasn’t interested and made your own plans.

@RoosterPotatothat is also a concern of mine. That’s why I’m thinking of it now so I know how to best go about the situation.

@WhatDidIComeInThisRoomForthank you. Yes I agree re how far away it is, so it’s not a conversation I’m currently having with them, but it’s on my mind already and I want to make sure I go about it the best way possible. Yes, he will assume that they’re going to his this year and will ask nearer the time for specifics. Your message is very sensible but his response wouldn’t be as measured as that!!

If I was you I would feel exactly the same but don't weaponise your kids' relationship with their father to punish him. He sounds crap but the bond with both parents growing up is important and if they spend every Christmas with you, when they're older they may feel let down by their Dad. For their sake, you want to avoid that even if it grates on you.

The minute they're unsafe or unhappy in his presence then step in but as a parent, who clearly puts their needs first and does a great job, then you need to do this last thing and make the decision in their objective best interests. I don't know if there's anything you can do to get him to step up in any way?

Agree with this.
we always did alternate Christmas
it was only fair ( crap dad or not - as long as the kids are safe)
Even after we had our baby.
it all worked out - a few short years they’ve off with their friends and then marrying.
Take the high ground- they’re off for a fortnight

Keep reframing it as for the kids not him.

They are going so they have memories of spending Christmas day with their dad's side as well as yours. They go to their dads and hopefully have fun with their grandparents. In years to come they will see the difference, they already are. But they'll also know it was his lack of effort, not your actions that came between them.

You could legally refuse to send them - but is it worth poking the bear? If he's a man-child what will he do in retaliation that is within his legal rights but will screw you around? You can have Christmas day on another day. New baby won't have a clue. Celebrate on Christmas eve or boxing day. You tell the kids santa knows they have two homes and he's promised to send them presents etc so they can have another Christmas day with you and new baby on X, get them excited and focussed on that, rather than I'm sad I miss baby first Christmas. Take that pressure away.

Time will likely come when they decide they don't want to go. And you can listen and back them up when it comes to that. But for now, all you can do is what you're already doing.