This happened to me at the weekend and I feel ashamed I did nothing - Racism

[Changedusernameforthis2]

I was at a car boot sale at the weekend and there was a large stall there- that was a man and wife- selling 'fill a bag' type stuff - they were a house clearance company avoiding paying dumping fees I think

There was a lady there who was wearing a headcovering, she kept going behind the stall and they kept shooing her out
The man said in a sort of 'I'm muttering but loud enough for everyone to hear' way - he said "They're like rats, it might help if we stop giving them everything"
I was really shocked and just walked off but I feel really ashamed I didn't tackle it

What can I say if I find myself in this position again? I do not want to stand by and let it happen- I feel embarassed of being a coward

You absolutely can police someone’s speech. Freedom of speech works both ways and isn’t freedom from the consequences as so many people seem to think it is.

If he wasn’t being racist and just happened to use two well known tropes to describe a woman in Islamic dress he’s still a bloody fool for speaking so thoughtlessly.

Fine OP, you're the one that was there and could hear tone etc, see exactly what happened. Next time speak up if you feel that is appropriate.

Reflect on what you could have done differently.

No point giving out here. People can only see what you wrote and interpret it as written.

If you regret not speaking up in the moment, that's on you.

Others here aren't the societal problem for not necessarily agreeing with your written interpretation.

From what you've written, the woman shouldn't have kept going behind the stall and the stall holder was within his rights to be frustrated by anyone doing that. Was his intent racist? Nobody here knows. You think l so because you heard his intonation and saw his expression. Fine. I take your word for it that he was. But you're the one who didn't speak up. Others here can only see the transcript which is ambiguous and could be about customers.

You're taking your frustration out on other posters for what exactly? What absolution do you want? Why not tell us what you would do differently next time?

@Changedusernameforthis2 Yes, well I've started the conversation by asking you some questions and you have chosen to hector us with your misplaced piety rather than continuing what could be interesting by answering those questions.

Of course you can't answer questions such as, "Do you think she had a right to KEEP harassing him in this way" because if you answer

• Yes, she did. Then the next question will be: why and it will start to get sticky for you.
• No, she didn't. Then the next question will be: then why did you think he didn't have the right, in his frustration at having to KEEP telling her, to call her a name-a rat, a cunt, whatever came to his mind.
• The only way out for you would be to answer: He did have the right but he shouldn't have called her a rat and said "we keep giving them anything because by his use of "them" he was othering, which is racist.
• Even that response doesn't get you off the accusation of false piety because an answer might be: he was being respectful of this person's pronouns and wasn't sure how they identified, so used the gender neutral-them." OR an alternative might be-as another poster has posted out-he could be referring to people of all races trying to get behind his stall.

I bet you wish you hadn't said that he kept telling her and she kept ignoring him. You didn't think it through-you intended by use of "kept" to show us how this person was harassed.

Instead, many of us see an ignorant person ignoring the stall holder and thinking she/he/they had a perfect right to do what she wanted while bleeding hearts ignored her behaviour and focus on the stallholder-who sounds pretty patient-eventually snapping and calling her a name.

So, that is why you won't answer the questions because you're on a sticky wicket.

Next time, stand up for someone who fears being robbed and stop dismally failing to display your sensitivity towards a potential thief who just happens to be wearing a head scarf.

Toodle Pip!

No I was expecting a discussion

I agree with absolutely everything you say here, except "every criticism of a non white is racist". Unless I have badly misread the opening post, at no stage did the OP mention the race of the woman. Plenty of white women wear headscarves.

Edited to add - I missed a page - sorry. I see this has already been picked up. Apologies - did not mean for this to be a hectoring point.

I was asking for ideas of what I could say

but only with people who agree with you

Nope this isn't right at all

Ughh. There's no way he would make that comment about a white British person. If you can't see that as racist then I can barely be bothered.

I think you have absolutely no idea what it's like to be a person of colour in this country. I wish you could at least try it for a couple of days and see how you got on.

You are not participating in a discussion.

Here's another discussion point for you- do you think it is worse to call someone a rat or to invade private space despite being told not to do so.

Should he have made a citizen's arrest and called the police on the charge of suspected theft or trespass? If not, why not? How many times did he have to keep asking her?

What do you think would happen if a white person kept going behind his stall?

Even for MN this is a weird thread. And that’s saying something.

Ask her to get out from behind his stall or as another PP said, call security for him.

OP wanted a discussion about what to do when you see racism. Could be all sort of responses to that.

What she was not asking for is for a collection of dim/disingenuous posters to say "oh I really think the reference to 'rats' and to 'them' and to giving 'them' stuff for free was about car boot etiquette and not race".

Because it is time to virtue-signal, that is why.

If the comment is employing racist or xenophobic tropes and generalising from an individual to a group, then it's completely reasonable to say its racist!

"do you think it is worse to call someone a rat or to invade private space despite being told not to do so."

What a stupid question. As PP said, it sounds like a weirdly large (and weird) chunk of posters today think it's OK to be racist if someone is rude.

What do you think you could have said in such a situation?

Agreed. Lots of reading comprehension issues, to give the most generous possible interpretation

'what do you mean by "them"?'

No she didn't, she wanted everyone to see how virtuous and caring she is towards the right people while taking it upon herself to police the speech of the out-group. This is why she is getting 'dim' responses.

While there was no need to say what he said the woman should have respected when asked that she wasn't to go behind their table and stayed round the other side, especially if told numerous times.

How did she know they were Muslim?

So who is the they? Women?

Have a day off!