Can Dds boss give her a bad reference?

[Yellowrosesandcactus]

Dd has worked for a very small company for several years.
Her manager is awful, she screams and swears at them, calls them useless and threatens to sack them.

Dd used to be an amazing worker, won awards, was highly praised there but has been completely beaten down and is applying for other jobs.

She has been promised the World while there and given nothing.

She has spoken to her manager about how unhappy she is and her manager completely laid into her basically telling her she is useless at her job and clearly doesn't want to work there.

Dd has another job who love her and will give her a good reference but the position she is in is her currently position and the most relevant to her other job applications.

How does she get passed this?

I thought I read that bad references couldn't be given but this manager has never stuck to rules before on anything.

Her boss can give a negative reference but it has to be accurate.

The reference must be honest and factual. So it could include, if it were true, “DD has been persistently late for her shifts” but it cannot state that if it is not true, and nor can it state something entirely subjective that can’t be evidenced with facts such as “DD is not good at her job”, which could be challenged.

It’s likely that the new employer will just ask her current employer to confirm that she was employed between X dates in X role, which is increasingly common.

Yes. There's a pervasive myth that companies can't give a bad reference, but it's just a myth. It should be factual and be able to be evidenced though, in case it's challenged.

When jobs ask for references, a lot of the time they are just asking for the employer to confirm the job role and dates of employment given are correct.

I have had several jobs and I think only once has an employer actually contacted any of my references.

Can your daughter give HR department as a reference rather than her manager?

Thank you, that is very useful.

There in no HR department. It is literally five members of staff including management.

Normal references just give job title and dates of employment. Otherwise, everything they say must be factually true.

Is she in a union

They can give her a bad reference if it is factually correct yes

If it's a small company with no HR then the risk of them giving a bad reference or none at all is higher. Sure, it should be factually correct, but if it isn't, is your DD going to sue them? I doubt it.

As others have said, a factually correct negative reference is perfectly legal. But from what I've heard, currently there is a significant trend towards I can confirm X worked here during this period with this job title. It used to be someone only did this to make the point they weren't going to give a positive reference, so the boss may do that to try and be petty but as everyone seems to do that these days, she should be fine. But do ask her to think back clearly how many times she was late, sick etc before asking for a reference just in case they can use that against her if they are really that nasty.

I agree with others that many employers refuse to give a reference other than to say "X worked here in X position from X date to X date'. At most, they might agree to fill in a form with brief comments or boxes to be ticked. But the days of employers writing 'reference letters' are gone.

In answer to your question, yes, and employer can make negative comments in a reference but they would have to be able to back them up.

I think she's been late twice in five years when our bus providers switched over and it was a shit show.

She's been sick 3 times in that period with actual vomiting so I don't think that's excessive that a company would be worried?

I mean tbh I would help her to sue them at this point.
The whole experience has been horrendous with them over the last year or so.

Any company would snap your daughter's arm off to employ her with that reliability! So I don't see how they can give a negative reference with so little to complain about.

In all seriousness you must be really proud of your daughter's hardworking attitude. I really hope she gets the success she deserves.

Not sure what type of company she works for but most of the time references get handed to the admin to complete who just do generic date reference

Can she afford to leave anyway? I wouldn’t normally suggest this, but the form will ruin her confidence. That’s important.

I worked for a company which did sometimes give bad references, one was so bad it was obviously vindictive (not for me) and the new boss said “they were obviously wanting to keep you”.. So I wouldn’t worry too much.

Also just an idea, most companies just require a reference from someone you worked with, doesn’t necessarily have to be her boss, are there line managers/team leaders etc, they could suffice

You would think so but she had one week of holiday in five years (unpaid because her boss doesn't understand holiday pay) and asked for a day off to attend an event. She was shouted at as soon as she asked and told they expect their hourly staff to be consistent...

She could but she wants to stay in employment.
She's already on antidepressants because of the boss.

Also, I take references all the time and yes references must be factual (even if it’s negative) but that doesn’t stop people spilling their guts especially if it’s over the phone and not in writing.

If she has another job, she could use them for a reference instead