9 yr old told off for calling non-binary teacher Sir

[Nowherecitizen]

My friend’s son was told off by a teacher at his school for referring to them as ‘Sir’. The teacher is male but identifies as non-binary.

Their title is Mx which the children are aware of. But the little boy simply looked at an adult who is visibly male and used the term Sir.

I have seen this teacher and they are 'masculine' looking but will sometimes wear a skirt and heels.

Friend’s DS felt bad and can’t recall exactly what was said to them but said the teacher was ‘very cross’.

AIBU to think this was mishandled? Surely the child should be reminded gently of the preferred identity of this adult but should not face a telling off?

What is the non-binary version of Sir anyway?

Well my children called their teachers by their names - and they have several teachers so they need to remember their names.

Absolute madness! I work in a secondary school and have been called 'Sir' before (and Mum!) I just laugh and tell them I must be looking particularly rough today. They're kids, they make mistakes (as do adults).

Your point being?

To be clear, the teacher does not present as female and is NOT as far as I know transitioning. The top half attire/hair/face looks very ‘male’ on the occasions I’ve seen them. The bottom half when I’ve seen them has been clad in a skirt and heels. Quite chic actually. I don’t have a problem with this as such. It’s more expecting a 9 year old to be fully conscious and thoughtful of it at all times. I do not think the teacher remotely presents any sort of risk except for being a bit of a grumpy git which I’m probably also prone to being!

No. Children should not be coerced into denying reality by bullying adults. Totally inappropriate for this teacher to shout at the child for calling him sir.

I've read the link. It doesn't explain why identifying as a race is different from identifying as a woman. It just asserts they are different. I disagree.

I believe that people are either born male or female - that is the biology of the human nature as we know it. But I believe that gender is a separate issue. I was born female and identify as a female. For me it’s a simple matter. But the same is not for everyone. Trans people know what they are born - biologically the problem is that they don’t see themselves that way.

I think rhetoric such as “no matter what he will always be a he and not a she” is reductive and dismissive. Yes you can argue that biologically that is accurate but humans are more than a collective of atoms - and what we feel and how we identify ourselves is a huge part of who we are. To deny someone the possibility to exist as they wish to exist is cruel and unnecessary.

and for the record - before more comes on this - yes I want woman to be safe but in my opinion to support trans and support women are not mutually exclusive.

My DD has more than once called teachers “mum”

she never gets in trouble for “mis-parenting”

Point is / it’s not hard for a child to remember what to call their teacher. As long as they are not disciplined there is no issue a teacher reminding the children what they want to be called.

There is a big difference between a child not remembering a teacher's name – which IS their name – and not remembering that the teacher doesn't want to be addressed as someone of the sex that they patently are.

I’ve heard that assertion but how do you know that every person who does not want to be defined as the sex they were born is a fetishist?

What a great role model you seem to be - would you demand a meeting with the teacher to show who’s boss?

There is no difference at all in my opinion so agree to disagree

Don’t forget that on MN all biological male trans or non binary people are only doing it because they want to sexually abuse women 😒

Trans people know what they are born - biologically the problem is that they don’t see themselves that way.

So explain to us why that's different to any of the other examples ...

Transracial people know what race they are born, the problem is they don't see themselves that way

Or

Trans-age people know what year they are born, the problem is they don't see themselves that way

Or

Trans species people know what species they are born, the problem is they don't see themselves that way

Or

Transabled people know what ability level they are born, the problem is they don't see themselves that way

Have a nice day.

I'm curious. I'm 70 years old and never had to call teachers Sir or Miss when I was a child. As a retired teacher, I never taught in a school where teachers were called Sir or Miss. During my life and experience, teachers are called Mr\Mrs\Miss and their surname, but never just a title. So was this 9 year old deliberately calling the teacher Sir to antagonise?

If we are allowing people to identify as whatever dream is in their head, where do we draw the line because there really does have to be a line. If a child of 10 decides they are 18 and are going for pint in the pub can the landlord refuse to serve them because they are underage ? If a 35 year old male decides he is 15 and starts dating a 14 year old girl do we have the right to stop him ?

Most men who do this are. With young women it tends to be a flight from womanhood.

Can you articulate why?

My reasoning for my position is it's never actually counter-intuitive to remember to call someone, say, Mrs Jones or Mr Singh (although you may simply forget their name, which is a different thing), whereas it IS counter-intuitive to look at someone who is patently male and call them 'Mx', which is for women.

Now you go.

I get called Sir, Mam, Miss all the time.

My reasoning is that it’s only not counter intuitive because that’s what you have been taught - you weren’t born with that knowledge - therefore you can acquire and de-acquire different knowledge.

Mx is not for women. It’s a gender neutral term.

Well I didn't think I'd get an answer, I guess 🤷‍♀️