Do phalloplasties actually work?

[SilverTapz]

After wondering about this for a while, I ended up searching phalloplasty online and ended up on a Reddit page where people post their progress. I had never seen one before an was curious, I guess. It was actually quite shocking. People with what looks like no muscle left on their forearms, someone with a necrotic 'scrotum', someone where the stitches were wide open and the tip has turned black and left a gaping hole etc etc. People seem to be commenting saying that they look great, they've made the right decision etc, but honestly they look absolutely butchered. It's scary. And I guess my question is, do they actually function? Some of these people are so young and it's scary what they've done to their bodies. I can't help but think a lot of them will regret the decision. Is it mainly cosmetic? Can they orgasm? Honestly just very shocked by what I've seen!

The important thing here is, it's a person's choice what they do or don't do with their body. You might not like it but it's not your body.

Arguable. Anorexics? Body Integrity Identity Disorder? Eunuchs?

I have noticed that people don't like it pointed out that these male people see vaginas as fuck hole though.

However, those surgeries reduce a vagina to that. An orifice to fuck as that is that cavity's only role.

I believe that people don't understand that there is a Eunuch paraphilia.

As a health care professional where we have a knowledgeable colleague from a particular specialism who has posted about the difficulties facing post op patients, I can assure you that the research ( limited as it is) shows incredibly high complication rates. I believe it’s profoundly unethical to do this sort of surgery on people with the aim of transitioning as you are destroying somebody’s correcting functioning, healthy uro-genital system in favour of potentially a lifetime of urinary and sexual dysfunction, all of which can have profound consequences for individuals as well as the nhs.

"If it was to pee from a phallic appendage then probably over 92% success rate." I'd be interested to see the source of the statistic. Though I suppose it depends what you mean by 'pee through a phallic appendage'. Very many develop fistulas - holes along the length so the pee comes out. Very many have episodes of retention where they can't pee AT ALL until they go to hospital and end up needing suprapubic catheters. And lots of infections, graft rejections. Using membrane from the mouth (buccal graft) to create "urethral lengthening" - then having long term mouth problems with pain, restricted mouth opening and difficulty speaking.

And some people have rigid or semi-rigid implants to allow penetrative sex, but there have been cases of these eroding through the created tip of the neophallus, so they have to be replaced.

It's such a lot of suffering and disability to cause in a previously healthy body.

A man can never be a woman
A woman can never be a man

so any form of encouraging that / lying about it / saying otherwise is of course to be condemned

to go further and say that surgery can change you is an abuse scandal larger than any other we have seen in this country…

any belief about being in the wrong body sits in the mind - either through genuine body dysmorphia, or through peer and societal pressure to be something different - the barbaric mutilation of youngsters validating the distorted ideology of older more twisted people…

we should be focusing more of the NHS money and time on exploring the why and looking at his to care for the mental illnesses which are so strongly a part of this… not butchering people and lying to them…

however much a salesman persuades you to buy spoilers and body kits for your ford fiesta - it can never be a Ferrari or Skoda / Kia / Peugeot etc - we are what we were born and working to help people accept that is the only moral and ethical route forward

Just in case anyone isn’t clear on the full impact of a phalloplasty on the body, a requirement for the procedure is a full hysterectomy and oophorectomy (as they effectively seal up the vagina, sometimes also removing the vaginal canal).

These procedures are mostly carried out on girls from 18 and in their twenties (when the brain is still maturing) and a high proportion have autism or display undiagnosed autistic traits. As soon as the self diagnosis of ‘trans’ takes place, any exploration of the mental health issues causing that feeling is stopped.

In fact the government, pushed hard by Stonewall are trying to make such exploration to find alternative solutions to the distress illegal. This is the ‘affirmation only’ model as practised by gender clinics.

The NHS will not sterilise or perform medical hysterectomy on women under 30 except in immediately life threatening circumstances. Why do the NHS offer phalloplasty (with hysterectomy etc) to girls 18+? Their lives are not immediately in danger - they need mental health assistance.

OP, can I ask what made you decide to ask this question on Mumsnet? Would it not have been better to ask a forum where there are likely to be some actual trans men who might have lived experience in the area? What kind of answers were you hoping for by posting the question on a forum that is known for being majority gender critical?

I'd imagine the OP wanted others to be informed about these horrific procedures. What I don't understand is why that should be a problem.

Quite. We literally have lost the moral high ground on this.

Trans identified females who have health impacts from this surgery are reluctant to talk about it because they get shunned by others in their “community” if they speak up.

that’s the opposite of kind.

It’s so strange. Surely real sexual attraction has to be focused on the genitals? Genuinely mutually enjoyable sex surely must involve appreciation of and delight in one’s partner’s sexed body. The marriage ceremony used to include “with my body I thee worship” and I always thought that was rather lovely. I’m heterosexual and if I really like someone I definitely like their penis. It’s wonderful, complex, and so arousing when erect. It’s also very much part of their body. I imagine that the same sort of thing happens for same-sex attracted people.
It makes me think that those who feel that some sort of simulacrum of genital organs is adequate are experiencing a rather different version of sexual attraction, though in what way I can’t understand.

OP, can I ask what made you decide to ask this question on Mumsnet? Would it not have been better to ask a forum where there are likely to be some actual trans men who might have lived experience in the area?

The OP's decision to post was triggered by a reddit forum of transmen and their "lived experience".

There are forums specifically for those who have detransitioned as well. Another place where OP would have been more likely to get more useful answers than on here – which is why I'm curious what prompted OP to post this question here on Mumsnet.

Why not ask the question there, then?

Why are you trying to police where OP posts?

This is a serious issue of the exploitation of the young and vulnerable by activists who have infiltrated and persuaded the NHS to further this abuse.

It is an important public health issue in the same way that FGM is (the outcomes are identical, if not worse) but unfortunately too many people just hear the lies from the activists and don’t understand the reality.

Phalloplasty requires a hysterectomy and oophorectomy. Why do you think the NHS refuses to sterilise women under 30? Then apply that to girls with the mental health condition that makes them hate being female.

Mine doesn't - is it ok for me to have an opinion on FGM then?

The poster is just trying to shut the OP up. We all know that.

I put a link to two metareviews earlier. The second link talks of voiding while standing (i.e. peeing standing) being most successful outcome at 92% . I have pasted it here again and highlighted it for you @StellaAndCrow Am not sure if the rate of complications is higher than other surgeries but again, hard to compare surgeries (And in this case, hard to say what is lifesaving surgery as some trans people will say such a surgery saved their life (or will save it) and I cannot disprove that)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29019859/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2050052122000129
database searching generated 39 final articles, with 19 case series, 3 cross-sectional studies, and 17 retrospective cohort studies. A total of 1731 patients underwent phalloplasty, with the most common type of reconstruction performed being the radial forearm free flap (75.1%). Overall complication rate was high at 76.5%, of which urethral complications were high in all reconstructive subgroups (urethral fistula rate of 34.1% and urethral stricture rate of 25.4%). Postoperative functional outcomes were reported in 57.6% of patients, finding that most had tactile sensation (93.9%) and can void while standing (92.2%). Aesthetic outcomes were only reported in 6.3% of patients, with mean length achieved being 12.26 cm (SD = 0.81 cm) and mean circumference being 10.18 cm (SD = 3.69 cm).

Asking the question? It's not a problem at all. But I'm still not sure what made OP think that Mumsnet was the right place to ask it, rather than forums where people who have had this kind of surgery might actually be.

If I wanted to understand why people undergo breast reduction surgery and their experiences of doing so, I would ask on a forum for women who have had breast reduction surgery, not a forum of men who are noted for their negative opinions towards woman who want breast reduction surgery.

Yeah, mine doesn't either. Am I good?

We can canvas opinions wherever we like. It'd like asking for advice about a mil/grandma issue and you telling them to go post on granset.

I can't imagine anyone asking wtf have you done to your body and does it even work would be well received on sites supporting delusions about changing sex.

Whatever the views of trans people or gender critical people, the medical research evidence on problems caused by surgical procedures is currently fairly clear …after the Cass report, I was incredibly sad to think how NHS professionals were complicit in causing harm to multiple children and young people, as times go on I think we will become even more aware at how health care has been complicit in causing harm to trans adults. Historically those with severe body dysmorphia ended up in the mental health system because it was recognised they needed support.

I'm not policing it. I'm asking her why.