Is this the norm, school nurseries

[Hollies98]

I met up with a friend to do the school run. Her dc is in the school now nursery. Age 3 and a half .. she was running round lifting her school dress and her nappy was that low, looked as if it’d been on all day. Is this the norm? are schools not required to change nappies?

I can only tell you that’s what my children’s preschool say and miraculously every child arrives trained, conversely a significant proportion of the 3 year olds at the private nursery they both attended weren’t ready to train. Always made me smile.

On what basis can’t they refuse? My children’s setting says they don’t have the facilities to change nappies.

Our school nursery has 3 year olds in nappies. I didn't think they could refuse to accept children in nappies considering they can start school nursery at 2.5 here (with a referral).

Ours doesn't take children in nappies but that's reception, not actual nursery. Nursery will change them but at 3, they shouldn't still be in nappies unless they have special needs. Maybe they didn't even realise she was wearing one.

I often take my 4 year olds friends out with us to petting farms and the like and even the youngest who is 3.5 can manage their own underwear and use the toilets, with me outside the cubical door.

Sometimes have to help with buttons and hand washing but that's it, they can go and wipe themselves etc without adult help.

I work in a nursery attached to a private school and we are not allowed by law to refuse to take children who aren't potty trained, or to make parents come in and change them. Any setting doing this will fall foul of inspectors (OFSTED or ISI). You can't claim you don't have facilities - you have to find a way. I'm astonished that nurseries are refusing but kind of wish I could too. When I started teaching there were never children in nappies, but now we have a couple every year and we have to persist with the parents to get them out of them.

The Disability Discrimination Act specifically mentions delayed continence (not being toilet trained) as a form of disability that settings for children MUST NOT discriminate on the basis of. In cases where nappy changing is genuinely impossible in the setting (rather than ‘oh whoops, we haven’t bothered) then taking home and changing before return is possibly lawful, especially if the setting is eg having necessary work done.

I have only encountered an ‘allowable’
issue when the child in question needed very significant mobility aids / hoists etc and there was a short delay while new ones needed to be installed as they became larger and heavier.

Day care nurseries, and nurseries that take children for the year before they go to school, attached to state schools are two very different things. Legally, state nursery classes are on shaky ground insisting on children being toilet trained. But many do- because their ratios are just not high enough to facilitate multiple children needing nappy changes. I’m not saying it’s right- some children aren’t ready, but it’s the reality. Day care nurseries, whilst in theory have the same ratios, because there will be more staff generally, there is a lot more flexibility.

The EYFS is clear that settings must have suitable facilities:

3.71 Providers must ensure:
• There is an adequate number of toilets and hand basins available - there should usually be separate toilet facilities for adults.
• There are suitable hygienic changing facilities for changing any children who are in nappies.

School nursery expect children to arrive toilet trained, a lot of them spend the first half term toilet training children who haven’t been.

At my children’s school only one child in each of the classes wore nappies and those children have signifigant additional needs. Those children would have been encouraged to change themsleves with help if needed or done my an adult if they couldn’t manage.

Aren’t all nurseries just private but affiliated or on school grounds? Is there such thing as a “school nursery” in the UK AKA actually ran by and funded by the school?

Yep there are lots of nurseries which are a class within the school, the vast majority will have a qualified early years teacher.

@Amba1998 I just chose Liverpool at random but here is an example

www.phoenixprimaryliverpool.co.uk/

No nursery is allowed to refuse a child in nappies but given I know a couple of parents whose children have been rejected for still being in nappies I wonder it’s hard to enforce? My friend was rightly angry when her child banned for not being dry yet but she sent a scathing email, reported them to LEA and sent him elsewhere rather than fight for him to be allowed to stay.

They are also not allowed to refuse to change a child. It’s against the equality act.

Yeah. The school my eldest attends has a proper preschool nursery (FS1) with a nursery teacher.

The ones on school grounds tend to benefit from low ground rents, have qualified teachers and use the school facilities. So they might not be funded by the school but in many ways they’re subsidised.

According to ERIC in January 2025

It is estimated that one in four children in England and Wales are starting school not toilet trained. Now in one area of Wales, parents are being asked to come to school to change nappies. It’s a difficult situation for everyone involved and there are many reasons why this has occurred.

https://eric.org.uk/news/toilet-training-and-school-readiness-in-the-news/

There is a difference between a private nursery on school grounds who tends not to have qualified teachers and nursery classes who are part of the school.

Can you elaborate then as that’s the question I was trying to answer.

You do realise that there are children in reception classes who are still in nappies (not special needs, ND or disabled).

Sorry this is full of typos that I’m too tired to correct

I’m not sure what it is you want to know. School nursery will have a qualified teacher, ratio will be 1:13, the curriculum will follow EFYS but will be tailored to match the rest of the eg follow the same phonics programme and in my children’s school they start teaching French from nursery. It will be play based but offen a little more formal, teacher called Mrs Teacher rather than by their first name and they will be starting to follow school routines and become used to school building eg big hall, art room and library. They’re part of the school community and will be invited to school events eg summer fayre, STEM week and Easter egg hunt. They’re just another class in the school so the headteacher is in charge, school policies are followed, Ofsted will observing nursery and judging them. They mormally wear school uniform.

A private nursery on site is run seperatly. The head will ask to see staff DBS and safeguarding policies. They will discuss what happens when fire alarm goes off or lockdown alarm. Otherwise the head has no view of what happens, no financial involvement, it’s a seperate organisation in the same way that a Brownies unit hiring the hall after school would be, Ofsted will inspect as seperate organisation and the head isn’t involved in any issues between the nursery and parents.

To attend school nursery, children need to be out of nappies unless ALN.

I've worked with a lot of nurseries and pre-schools too and never come across one that refuses to change nappies. I'm sure some people just make stuff up to try and make a point about what age children should be toilet trained. The ones that come out with they only do nappies for significant SEN are total rubbish, most children's Special EDUCATIONAL Needs won't be picked up until they are actually in education.

It is a sschool, no SEN, and they take the children in from age 3 at this one. I did wonder when I saw it though, it looked very uncomfortable..

Yes the teacher has EYTS, she used to teach my DD in reception, but moved to teach nursery class from last year