Unfair to defer summer borns

[ifyoudont]

Dd was born late august, is the youngest in her year but instead of rest of her class being just under a year older than her , there’s 4 children who are nearly a year and a half older because they were born April -august the year above and deferred.

Somebody has to be the youngest and somebody the oldest but surely the fairest way is to keep the age difference within a year.

Dd is doing well academically and socially and only really struggling during playtime and PE as she is smaller. A boy in her class has early May birthday but because he was deferred instead of being 3+ months older than her is 15+ months older and the biggest and strongest in the class leading to several incidents where he has injured her.

A family member has a baby due in June and is already mentioned deferring them without knowing how advanced or behind they are going to be.

I definitely do think there are a few exceptions where it can be necessary but it seems to to be often done just because it can. Maybe there should be be stricter guidelines and some sort of test required?

AIBU? If so what am I missing?
I don’t hear people share this opinion often and haven’t shared it with family member

Are you a people pleaser? Defer her if it benefits her and gives her an advantage. Life is unfair. Private school kids have an unfair advantage, well connected people open doors for their kids - that’s an unfair advantage. So what??

Why would you not do the best for your child?

I don’t think there is any point in deferring the school start as it will won’t make any difference over their schooldays and they will get to where they were meant to be .

It depends on the child, but the research shows that many children are negatively affected by starting too early and that this can have lasting effects. Though the gap reduces it does not close completely over their school career. So they may not all get to where they were meant to be.

The size of the month of birth gap in reaching the expected level of attainment decreases as children progress through the Key Stages, beginning at an odds ratio for autumn-born children compared with summer-born children of 2.6 at age five, and shrinking to 1.5 by age eleven, then 1.3 by age sixteen.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7b29e5ed915d3ed9062971/DFE-RR017.pdf

In a way , all I did was delay my child’s formal education. They still attended preschool, I just ensured they had their full entitlement of the early years curriculum, and started the more formal key stage one curriculum as just turned 6, which is more developmentally appropriate. ( seven would be better but that’s a different point)

Some summerborns are ready, my eldest was. But my youngest definitely wasn’t, preschool agreed with me. They needed more play based learning to develop their language skills, they still struggled as times with too letting. To be honest they would have had far more impact on the rest of the class at 4 than 5 die to how much adult time they would have needed. So the delay was actually better for the rest of the class.

So the delay was actually better for the rest of the class.

This is a good point. From the link I attached a couple of posts ago:
At the end of Key Stage 1, August-born pupils are nearly 90% more likely to be identified with SEN than September-born pupils; at Key Stage 2, this reduces to 60% more likely, and further to 25% more likely by Key Stage 4. The types of special educational need most disproportionate in summer-born pupils are moderate learning difficulties, specific learning difficulties, speech, language and communications needs, and other (unclassified) needs.

Sending children to school when they are not developmentally ready for it does not help their classmates who are ready. The younger children often need more time, attention and resources.

Yes my DC lost out on this by nearly a year. But also they lose in school on interventions if it is age dependent. So if eg Intervention A starts in Y1 for 12 weeks eg for DC aged 6 years and 6 months - autumn born get the intervention and move off, hopefully. By the time my summer born DC reached the age start time - hey only had a few weeks before the summer holiday. So I asked if that would continue in the next year autumn term. No - as it was now a new intervention programme. You couldn't make up the bias in the system against summer borns. Autumn born parents coming on here to talk about advantage - just be ashamed of yourselves and learn. You have no idea. The structural bias is extraordinary.

No it really doesnt. This is fear mongering. I live in a grammar area (went to grammar myself - summer born who went to primary aged 5 as you did, and moved back near 30 years ago) and have been part of the Flexibility for Summer-Borns campaign for at least 15 years. Seriously grammar or any other state secondary school don't care. And the independents really don't care.

Our DC was born early and right at the end of August rather than October. We deferred him. He started in reception at just a few days over 5. He was so tiny he was wearing age 2 clothes. He was one of the last to be able to zip his coat up but one of the best readers in the class. I never felt the year above at nursery were his cohort. He was oldest in year, smallest in school when he began.

Couldn't disagree more on outcomes. My Son has a specific learning need that impacted their early education so badly he was forced to go a special needs school in Y5. He'd had to start the local state primary school at just 4 and 3 months (I could only delay back then by a term). He was finally able (long story) to go back a year when he moved schools in Y10 back to Y9. At Y8 his reading age was only 7 1/2 years. He passed a great cluster of GCSEs (passes- we're not talking A grades!) and is now thriving at college doing what he has wanted to do all his life! That year delay - age 4 - would have made such a difference to his well-being and social setting. The ability to be able to learn comes much later with many students with SEN. Instead he was forced by an ideology to go to school an academic year earlier than the law of this country requires. I've fought for flexibility for kids like mine - summer born - to be able to attend school at the compulsory school age and not earlier. For 15 years. I will keep fighting. I know my main opposition is normally parents of autumn born children and their entitlement is stunning in their ignorance as to the impact. Whereas some of our best supporters are parents who have been educated in other countries where children dont start formal school until a lot later.

There's no studies that prove there are no fairies at the bottom of my garden, but I'm pretty sure they're not there.

Anecdotally you've noticed children exacerbating social issues? What does that mean. What is your formal role here, or are you just another over-protective parent? You sound like a parent of an autumn born who is put out that their kid isnt top of the class. And your odd comments regarding problems in the playground....problems in the playground are often caused by girls being fussy about normal boy behaviour. At YR/Y1 - boys will often, not always, be more boisterous. Girls are more vocal, moan, and everyone leaps in to assume that the boys have done something wrong. Nurseries are much better at dealing with typical boy behaviour - I think their training is more flexible in this regard.

Except @Stepintomyshoes stated that there absolutely were studies that proved that non deferred summer borns weren't detrimented by other summer borns deferring. They suggested a 'quick google' would bring these studies up and attempted to ridicule me for not being able to find them.

Now you're trying to suggest that the idea of non deferred summer born children being detrimented is as ridiculous as believing in fairies.

The determination of some posters to shut down debate and ridicule people for suggesting that deferral could be detrimental to some children is worrying. Don't you want a system that's fair for everyone? Isn't it worth looking into this issue instead of simply dismissing concerns? This is especially true when a large part of the ethos behind deferring children in the first place is that they are detrimented by being the youngest. Adding even older children into the class mix could exacerbate this issue. It absolutely isn't in the realms of believing in fairies. Shame on you for ever suggesting it!

I am neither an over protective parent or a parent of an autumn born.

Anecdotally simply means 'in my experience'. I have never stated that this was the sole problem in the playground but I have seen it and experienced it enough times to know it's reasonably common. Not just as a parent either. My teacher friends have noticed it too. Other teachers/parents may have not noticed it but we all live in different areas where deferral is done at different rates for different reasons. I live in an affluent area where parents often defer for no other reason than they want the advantages it infers for their child to be oldest. The April born 5 year old mature child may have very little in common with a just turned 4 year old immature child. Yes, you always get some natural variance between children but extending the age range will exacerbate these differences.

It depends on the children though surely? My DS is 23rd August and is definitely not ready for school. Still needs a nap in the day. Still in 18-24 month clothes! Of course I’m deferring him.

This is a great point. Instead of supporting summerborns with extra phonics and teacher / TA attention to help them 'catch up', why not let that support include giving them extra time -ie a year - to develop naturally.

Then they would be much more likely to enter the classroom not needing extra sessions or behaviour strategies or targeted small-group activities, and be able to access the curriculum independently. No resources needed. Surely that is nothing but a benefit for the teacher, the TA, and the rest of the children in the class who get more time and attention themselves?

The term 'catching up' itself implies a deficit. Why start your kid off needing to do extra work??

No, actually.

The point is that you've made a rather wild claim- that non-deferred children are somehow put at detriment by the mere presence of older children in their class. It's up to you to find proof, which should be easy, as in many countries, many private schools, and in most international schools children are sorted by ability and can be held back or accelerated. If it's something that's been observed a lot, there should be tons of data.

It's not up everyone else to disprove your outlandish claim. The burden is on you, just like if I said there were fairies in my garden, the burden would be on me to prove it.

It's absolutely not outlandish. It is completely logical that a well researched proven disadvantage of being summer born will be exacerbated by having even older children in the class. Scoff all you like but you can't expect people to accept that being born 12 months after your classmates is huge a disadvantage whereas being born 16 months after a classmate doesn't make this worse.

Other countries operate in completely different ways and aren't comparable. It is completely different to be held back a year due to a lack of ability and for an academically advanced child to be held back just because they were born in April. This will have a completely different impact on the cohort.

The onus should be on the government to prove the system is working for everyone.

Lots of people on this thread- me included- disagree.

4 is too young for many children, they're not ready to meet the expectations of school, that's why they are disadvantaged. It's not the presence of Autumn borns which holds them back.

If you think it is, you need to prove it.

Lots of people on this thread agree.

It has actually not been proven that summer borns are detrimented only because they start young. Relative age is also considered to be a factor that many studies have picked up on.

No, you don't get to dictate the burden of proof and declare it sits with me.

It's not me dictating it. It's common sense that if someone makes a claim, it's on them to prove the claim, not on others to disprove it.

Clearly you have a bee in your bonnet and are supremely ignorant about education, child development, and forming any kind of coherent argument, so I'm not inclined to waste any more time on you. I hope your child "wins" whatever you think they win for being the "best" at Year 1 or wherever they are, as it's obviously very important to you.

No, that isn't common sense. The number of summer borns looking to defer in the English system is unprecedented. It has been shown that this skewed towards the privileged.

You are getting nasty because you know I'm right. We simply don't know that deferred children aren't adversely impacting other summer borns. The sensible thing to do would be to undertake a comprehensive review about deferral, who exactly is deferring and for what reasons and how this impacting the wider class. What harm would come from that?

I'm not in anyway getting nasty, and I certainly do not think you're even slightly right.

The number of summer borns looking to defer in the English system is unprecedented

It's only currently unprecedented because of the relatively recent change in stopping the stupidity of the children not ready going into Y1 rather than YR the next year, and the publicity surrounding it.

The number of summer borns looking to defer in the English system is unprecedented.

Could you please provide a source for that claim?

It has been shown that this skewed towards the privileged.

Could you please provide a source for that claim? Also, a definition of 'privileged'.

The sensible thing to do would be to undertake a comprehensive review about deferral, who exactly is deferring and for what reasons and how this impacting the wider class. What harm would come from that?

Absolutely, I'd be very interested in that information. There is zero harm in undertaking it as far as I can see. What would your parameters be? How would you collect the initial data? Please update us when you some more info.

Until then, I think we can carry on with the system as it is - ie if we cannot change the starting age of summerborns in their 'default' cohort, then the option to delay those children by a year should be available to those who think it necessary.

https://bera-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/rev3.3409

Deferred entry into Reception has clearly increased and this is skewed towards more privileged households (those not on FSMs etc).

No, I don't agree with your conclusion that the system needs to stay as it is until I run a study to prove that the current system is flawed. That's not how these things work luckily.

Obviously for parents relative age of their kid being 12m younger in august may be a factor in deferring.
however your 'logic ' is flawed in saying 1 deffered child will make much difference. They are but 1/30 the average birth month and height will have scarecely moved. Kids grow around 6cm ayear so 1cm for 2months so a 1st july kid might be 1cm taller than if the kid were 1st sept.
but anyway the kids withi n a class are a random mix of birthdays and sizes for age. Some could be born at 24w meaning even apr could be due i assume after sept.
1/4 of kids are over 1yr taller and 1/4 a year smaller than their age.
Kids doing best/worst in year group are likely years ahead or behind. My kid age 7 was reading ahead of 10years etc. For maths there was a kid 2 years ahead in reception. But by y6 a couple of kids were so behind their ability was only ks1 so 6/7 years. prefer
I would much prefer if uk like many many other coutries held kids doing badly back (or allowed choice) as then there may be fewer not able to read or write.
statistically when i looked most england deferral was jul/aug.

if it moves towards like scotland most deferring then yes there will be disadvantage to in cohort august kids at gcse etc.

what teachers may not aldo have said is the disruption by 1 kid (sen or young in year) affects the whole class. The same kid at 5vs 4 may have improved a lot.
its always happened that a few kids were dropped back or accelerated.
dp has dyslexics in his family however all of them are may/jun/jul birthdays.