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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To fade friendship because of TG Ideologist remark?

39 replies

ballroomblue · 08/05/2025 09:35

NC for this.

We were out with one of our friends when he, a labour voter. mentioned Keir Starmer. He said he thinks Starmer is good man but a bit dull.

I replied 'I have no respect for Windsock Starmer whatsoever because of his support of transgender ideology and claims that 'transwomen are women.'

I usually don't get drawn in to political discussions but I had to speak up.

Our friend calmly replied. "Well, that's a non-issue."

I immediately saw red. My face heated up and the rage surged through me at this remark, something which I rarely experience.

Somehow I managed to bite my tongue and stop myself from reacting.

I've known this friend for over a decade, have always been fond of him and see him quite a lot, but am now questioning whether I want to spend time with someone so dismissive and lacking in insight and plain ignorant of the reality of the catastrophic effects to women that TDI has had.

Please be honest - am I overreacting?

OP posts:
NeedToChangeName · 08/05/2025 09:38

It's possible to maintain a friendship despite different politics / views

Zinnialime · 08/05/2025 09:39

You sound unhinged. Can you elaborate on the catastrophic effects please?

Shoxfordian · 08/05/2025 09:40

It's a non issue to him. The Supreme Court judgement agrees with you and KS said it gave clarity. Do you really need to cut off a friend over this? Why are you so invested?

Punzel · 08/05/2025 09:40

Don’t lose a friend over this. Just don’t discuss it.

WhereIsMyJumper · 08/05/2025 09:40

Yes, you’re overreacting.

FWIW, I agree with your stance on this but I don’t agree with dropping friends just because they hold different opinions to you. That’s how you end up in an echo chamber.
You could have had a respectful debate about it. Or in future, avoid the topic altogether but you don’t ditch a friend for disagreeing with you. That’s ridiculous.

BabyOrca · 08/05/2025 09:43

Of course it's a non-issue, it concerns womens rights after all.

tripleginandtonic · 08/05/2025 09:44

I'd have had to put my views across to him I that situation.
.
.

ErrolTheDragon · 08/05/2025 09:44

I don’t think you’re unreasonable to be upset by his dismissive attitude - it should have been obvious to him from your remark that it’s not a non-issue for you.
Some men are blind to it though (well, some privileged women are too come to that!), so maybe you should explain it all to him.

it was probably just as well you didn’t respond in the heat of the moment but tbh I think like many women you underreacted - bite the tongue, be polite.

Original poster
ballroomblue · 08/05/2025 09:46

Thank you for your honest answers! 'm having a word with myself now and I'm so glad I didn't answer back.

If anything I've been a bit of a people pleaser in the past and not voiced my opinions when I should. So I think my judgement is off and I'm over-compensating!

Deep down I don't want to end the friendship. I have no idea why I reacted so strongly. I rarely do. We never discuss politic normally and I can't remember even how it came up.

OP posts:
PaintYourAssLikeRembrandt · 08/05/2025 09:47

Did you have to speak up? All he said was he liked him but he's a bit dull. He wasn't giving a power point presentation on his manifesto and forcing you to listen.

Pleasantsort · 08/05/2025 09:48

My brothers are like this. Doesn't affect them as it is only women and girls innit. I keep a respectable distance. Feckers. I get it, OP.

ExtraOnions · 08/05/2025 09:48

This sums up why all debates in this country so quickly turn to name calling and rage. When did we get to the point where we were unable to discuss things, where we have to be “right”, where we are unable to accept that other people have different opinions.

Not everything has to be an argument. I have friends who voted Leave, whilst I voted Remain. I have friends who are TRA, whist I am GC .. my job is not to hector these people, and get them to change thier mind .. they are allowed there own views.

That’s not to say if someone says something that wildly incorrect I won’t point it out.

KimberleyClark · 08/05/2025 09:53

It’s also very childish to call politicians names because you don’t agree with them. See it all the time here though, and it’s mostly from Tory/Reform supporters towards Labour politicians.

GC5 · 08/05/2025 09:55

I have friends with all sorts of differing political views. I am GC and am friends with people who aren’t. There are definitely some views that would make me take a step back from a friendship - racism, misogyny etc. But that is largely because I’d think they were stupid and held fundamentally awful views, and so I would lose respect for them. Why would I be friends with someone I don’t respect?

But with the gender issue, my feeling is that unless people really dig into the issues, then the TRA campaign has been very successful at sounding reasonable. Most people won’t have thought any more deeply about the impacts. I am much more forgiving in those circumstances.

My decision on whether to remain friends with someone in this situation is whether I can have a reasonable conversation about it, and agree to disagree. Sometimes it has even resulted in people changing their minds. Sometimes it hasn’t. But they are not fundamentally bad people, unworthy of respect. So we stay friends and respect one another’s right to hold differing views.

AnSolas · 08/05/2025 09:57

He is a man who I guess has never had to consider the impact that men have on womens spaces, never had to worry about not being disadvantaged in his career just because of his sex, i am guessing from a comfortable economic background where he and the women in his family can buy 'safety'. Never had to worry that his word would not be enough if he was sexually assaulted yet see a political movement demand that man has to be believed in such a basic lie etc

In the end the demand of TWAW was always to force women to recognise the men "who gave up manhood and its perks" not for men to recognise the women who "upgraded" into manhood.

So for him the whole ideology has little risk and it never disadvantage to men as a sex on a social level.

I would not dump the friendship but would recognise that he has a massive blindspot about the legal and social implications of the ideology.

MyUmberSeal · 08/05/2025 09:58

Yes, you are being hugely unreasonable. You can’t ditch each and every person who doesn’t hold the same opinion, or who doesn’t feel the same level of profoundness on any given topic. I’d think you were an idiot. I’m a woman, but it’s also a non issue for me in my life. I don’t give TDI a second thought.

Jollyjoy · 08/05/2025 10:00

I think this is the result of you not having spoken up about it much before, it gets to be such a big deal (for good reason as you will be aware of how many women have been roundly vilified for expressing these views). The first few times I did it I was also a bit over passionate and emotional and could see it doesn’t win anyone over! But also have good experiences of expressing my views and others being surprised with the extent of my knowledge on the issue, so it being quite easy to refute many of their claims. I feel I spent about 5yrs being a silent terf, gathering knowledge and confidence, before I could have these more robust chats.

I think if it weren’t such a heightened thing then you could have calmly asked ‘oh? What makes you say that?’ Like you would with any other political view you’re not sure about. But like pps have said, it’s also fine to just not go there again and maintain the friendship.

rickyrickygrimes · 08/05/2025 10:01

I feel exactly like you do OP but tbh I don’t get into this particular issue with friends.

Of course it’s a non issue for him: he’s male. It’s an issue that affects the right of women and girls so is not a priority for him. it’s up to you if you want to be friends with someone who holds this opinion though.

you are probably right that you found it hard to be directly contradicted and challenged. If you aren’t used to arguing your corner and standing up for opinions, it can feel very personal and emotional when you are put in that position. It will get better - with you can step back a bit and agree to disagree.

Happyinarcon · 08/05/2025 10:05

Don’t buy into division. Every single issue now is being mishandled by the government and then hand balled over to us to fight over between ourselves.

Ablondiebutagoody · 08/05/2025 10:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ErrolTheDragon · 08/05/2025 10:22

I wonder if the responses would be the same if the conversation had been about something else which was a serious matter for you, OP, but not for the other person and they were similarly so entirely dismissive?

FredoandToto · 08/05/2025 10:24

MyUmberSeal · 08/05/2025 09:58

Yes, you are being hugely unreasonable. You can’t ditch each and every person who doesn’t hold the same opinion, or who doesn’t feel the same level of profoundness on any given topic. I’d think you were an idiot. I’m a woman, but it’s also a non issue for me in my life. I don’t give TDI a second thought.

No, but I wouldn't be friends with racists, so why would I want to be friends with people who think women's rights don't matter? We all have our lines.

SpanThatWorld · 08/05/2025 10:27

KimberleyClark · 08/05/2025 09:53

It’s also very childish to call politicians names because you don’t agree with them. See it all the time here though, and it’s mostly from Tory/Reform supporters towards Labour politicians.

I do agree with this. The whole Rachel from Accounts etc.

It's a way of dehumanising politicians who don't think the way we do rather than seeing them as people whose views are different.

It's all part of the general rise in toxicity in public discourse and the increasing belief that politicians are in it for themselves. The only people who benefit from cynicism are those who hope to undermine democracy.

Justwrong68 · 08/05/2025 10:34

The debate has made me see people differently too. I’ve heard similar comments from a couple of men, the first one I ended with a text: well I guess it doesn’t affect you. Recently, another dismissive male friend wound me up but I tried to control the red mist. If you’re invested in this, you’ll know all the facts about gay kids being converted, catastrophic surgeries and drug dependency, the alarming effect on women’s sport and sex based spaces, plus the erasure of lesbian spaces. You are not being unreasonable, you’re shocked that some still can’t see the madness.

ilovesooty · 08/05/2025 10:49

PaintYourAssLikeRembrandt · 08/05/2025 09:47

Did you have to speak up? All he said was he liked him but he's a bit dull. He wasn't giving a power point presentation on his manifesto and forcing you to listen.

Exactly. If I were him I'd be asking myself whether I wanted to continue the friendship quite honestly.