To not consent to DD going on school trip?

[DrinkRhubarb]

DD has additional needs. On a school trip last year, she was allocated to a parent helper and nearly got lost.
This year I have offered DP to help, but parent helpers were informed last week if they could go - DP wasn’t asked.

I can’t really give consent unless I know what arrangements are in place, but I’ve been battling over clarity of provision all year, and my emails are often ignored now. E.g no response to DP offering to help plus a follow up message.

Another parent that I trust has said she’ll look after DD, but I don’t know if the school will agree. Plus her DD has additional needs as well, and I think it’s a lot to ask.
I can visit the place separately with DD, plus she has a big event the evening/weekend following the trip. I don’t want her to
miss out, but I am worried after she nearly got lost last year (left in a toilet).

I read something on insta which said that as a parent with kids with extra needs, when it comes to advocating for them, you need to be reasonable, not to be liked. Do what you need to reasonably do for your DD to access this event.

How rude and judgemental!

Not at all rude or judgemental.

@DrinkRhubarb

I have to say that dont understand how on earth you have not moved her to another school. My (now adult) eldest son had SEN and they werent at all taken seriously by the school. It was made clear that he was an inconvenience (he was during the period where kids with needs were accepted into mainstream schools without proper provision put in place first...total car crash), so I moved him. Sounds like you need to move your DD.

@Vipersgonnavipe
@LimesOfBronze
@PyongyangKipperbang

Yes I think any opportunity to be ‘liked’ was out the window before I even stepped foot in the school. They rejected DD’s placement and I think the LA insisted? gave more funding? I wanted DD in her local community school and she is very happy there, has a very good friend/friends and is making great progress - can read well/very good at maths. I have considered moving her, but it’s an EHC plan application and I fear she may just get rejected again and I think it’s best to wait until her Key Stage Transfer next year. Her LA case worker is completely onside with me and will attend her Key Transfer meeting for her EHC plan next month.

@JIMER202

Her speech therapist is absolutely amazing, but the school don’t show me evidence of her suggested interventions (she’s given extra funding for these). The SENCO thought DD had been discharged from speech therapy last term - when she’s actually supposed to be working on targets at least three times a week. This is what caused the SENCO to be hostile towards me last week - I’d asked to see evidence of interventions. I intend to seek out private speech therapy now.

If I go down the formal complaint route, I don’t think governors involved with the school will be impartial, and it will create more animosity. I also think the SENCO could communicate with the next school about how ‘difficult’ I am, and this could lead to her placement rejected again. I’m not quite clear how it works with the local authority, I believe they have final say - or I then need to go down the legal route. Which I don’t know if I have the continued emotional strength for - and yet another school that don’t ‘want’ DD and see me as a huge pain.

Have you tried actually asking or talking to anyone? Rather than sending repeated emails

My dd always got allocated to the teachers group when younger then once older, when dc are allowed to go in small groups alone still hung out with her teacher - on a trip to London she went wedding shoe shopping with her teacher whilst others had 2 hours in Covent Garden area, she loved it! She was lucky, a teacher who realised that she preferred to chat adult style rather than typical 12 year old, and be with adults. The fact dd had seizures meant she had to be with adults helped of course

I work in a school. We know the schools who are rubbish at meeting their SEN responsibilities. Don't worry about being "marked".

I think you need to go with your gut on this one. And your gut is telling you DD is not safe in this set up (plus if you can take her to the museum or whatever it is yourself, she's not missing out).

I am a teacher and I would not send my child to a school like this, but my child also has an EHCP and I get that you can't easily just up and leave.

It can be awfully hard to actually speak to people at a school. Plus OP will be aware that with SEN and safeguarding things need to be in writing or staff can deny they were told.

Have you seen the risk assessment?
What exactly are her needs, as there are some classes in school with 1/3 in the Sen register. Does she get any 1:1 support? You comment about the school not meeting her needs so I assume there are significant needs that mean mainstream isn't suitable, yet that is where she is with possibly no support?

Sometimes a school will not want to take the child's parent as it doesn't help them and they cling to the parent and they see it as a day out with mummy or daddy. In some sen children this can make boundaries less clear, especially if the teacher expects certain behaviour while the parent doesn't or ignores the rules the teacher sets and allows the child to do what they want.

If your daughter's needs are significant I don't know why she isn't placed in a group with a staff member. Any tricky children for whatever reason are always allocated to staff, and parents generally get the children who have no medical concerns, no significant needs and are likely to be the most obedient and engaged in whatever the activity is.

Agree that toilet trips are usually done by staff (depending on age of children).

I was a teacher for 20 years. I will never understand schools making things difficult ( sometines seemingly deliberately ) for children who have additional needs. You have provided a solution of an adult to whom DD is the most important person there. If I were the teacher I'd be delighted and could effectively put your DD needs out of my mind because she has the best support possible. I have worked with head teachers who deliberately made things difficult for both me and the child/ parent. Sometimes it seemed it was a 'power' thing. School decides, not the parents. Stupid in my opinion.

My sister has it in my niece's EHCP that she will always have someone from the family with her on trips.

@AngelinaFibres

Oh I am definitely getting power vibes. That they rejected DD’s placement and ‘had’ to take her is at the root of all the issues I think.

The best teachers I’ve seen are extremely empathetic and put the needs of their children first. I don’t know if they tend to get ‘bullied’ out of managerial positions at schools…

@DrinkRhubarb Teachers are not all the same. Sen wears down some and others have a very different attitude. Time is another factor which makes some teachers less “caring”. People are not queuing up to be teachers. It’s actually great they are having a trip in the first place.

Transition to another school will name the new school on her plan so I’m assuming you will be part of this discussion? Schools, if named, are expected to take dc but can put up a robust argument to say naming that school is not going to meet needs. So they don’t entirely meet her needs and being forced into accepting dc often isn’t a great position to be in. It should not be like this but reality is something else.

There is not a chance I would allow this for a school trip, no. Your child’s safety is paramount. Can you evaluate the school’s provision, the trip sounds like the tip of the iceberg.

Is your partner DBS checked? I know when I used to volunteer, only DBS checked parents were considered for attending school trips.

I hope you find a resolution so that your child can attend safely.

Wait this is a repeated issue? Either tell the school DP is going, or take her out and give her a special day. Screw leaving it to the school to arrange, they’re enabling incompetence.

@LondonPapaIt’s what happened last time on a trip. Helper didn’t check all the group were present.

However when I’ve helped on school trips I have been DBS checked and when you have boys and girls in your group you arrange to meet the group outside the loos. You cannot physically go in both. When you have a group you really are checking where they are and that you have not lost anyone. DD might not have been totally lost - her group should have noticed she wasn’t there. Dc notice too.

Risk assessments are done and parent helpers should be appraised of their roles. Definitely checking you have dc with you! Mostly teachers take sen dc though - in my experience. Parents should be given a summary risk assessment.

If dc don’t go on such trips I think it’s a shame. They are fun and often dc buddy up to ensure everyone is present. Odd other dc didn’t notice her missing in my view. I had a boy upset in my group once. He had been really interested in what we were looking at. A teacher told him off for lagging behind (he wasn’t really - just fascinated) and he then went and hid behind an exhibition case crying . I did notice and when he felt ready he rejoined the group. Instances you cannot prepare for do happen but you cope as a helper and keep everyone together as much as you can. You do rely on dc and teachers though.

Just say her dad needs to go as 1:1 support for her. I can’t see why they’d refuse.

I’m wondering if by refusing they know DD won’t go. That might suit the school.

Stop sending emails and pick up the phone and talk to the school or arrange a meeting

DP emailed school and he can go, so I’ll get him to sort out DBS. Going forward, he may get better responses than me. I am anxious about DD and maybe I just wind the school up with my questioning,

I’ve read a few things about schools attempting to ‘off load’ SEN children. However OFSTED inspections are changing to promote inclusion I believe.

“Ofsted uses "inclusion" to mean a school culture that supports all pupils, especially those who may be disadvantaged or have additional needs, and that prevents "off-rolling" (expelling or removing pupils from a school's roll). Essentially, it's about ensuring all students, including those with SEN and/or disabilities, are fully included in all areas of school life.”

This reassures me that I am ‘right’, but it’s a horrible situation to tackle, and results in me being ostracised and dismissed.

I do find emails better because phone conversations and meetings have no record of proof. E.g. school and I agreed on some targets in a meeting, but they then weren’t included on a plan sent to me - and they were going to refuse to add them. I had no record to prove what was said.

He should not need DBS actually if it’s not regular parental help.

Ofsted have always looked at Sen and how schools include dc. It’s in every report. I would not expect to see much change there. They are looking at education provided, not details of school trips. The issue seems to be communication as opposed to poor education.

Unfortunately we SEND parents have to put everything in writing for the reasons the OP clearly states.

It would be a reasonable adjustment for DH to accompany her on the trip. We did this for DD, no issues at all.