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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think explicit YA is not the only culprit in this situation?

14 replies

AliasGrace47 · 06/05/2025 20:51

docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1rBmd2ET_VJULU_YmV8_QYZPH4ZbPUW49IYI8HDXWtZ0/mobilebasic

(Video transcript of Utah porn addicted schoolgirl testimony)

I'm Gen Z & gender critical, & I've recently been looking at efforts to make sure US kid and teen books are age appropriate. I def think libraries should have a 15/16+ system where more explicit books are not available to younger teens. I've heard the stories about that awful book Gender Queer & similar. Also worry about critical race theory.

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MojoMoon · 06/05/2025 20:56

No idea about this case and certainly not clicking on a random Google docs link..

But why are you focused on libraries and regulating what is in them? The vast majority of books read in the US are bought, not borrowed. You can label a book 16 plus in a library but still buy it in a shop.

Nice throwing in of critical race theory at the end - what exactly are you worried about and how does this relate to explicit young adult fiction? What do you even think critical race theory is?

AliasGrace47 · 06/05/2025 21:09

However, I have some reservations about the groups pushing for restrictions. Esp this video : Megan says she got into porn after a librarian recommended a teen romance to her w explicit sex scenes. It's not clear how old she was - "middle school' is 11-14 in the US, isn't it? The librarian shouldn't have recommended books aimed at an older age group than was appropriate.
Megan then says she was desperate to read more such sexy material and ended up reading explicit stories on the internet & then talking to paedophiles. 😡 This is terrible, but I just think the link between the book and that is not so simple. I and my friends read stuff like Judy Blume, Malorie Blackman etc from year 7 which included sex scenes & would laugh about it. I had one friend who read inappropriate slash fiction on wattpad but she was allowed too much phone access. My mum was v strict as were most of my friends' mums.

If Megan's parents had monitored her phone use there would have been no opportunity for it to escalate to fanfic, porn and paedophiles.

That's not to say the librarian is not in the wrong for recommending the book. It's nit clear if this was the book, but she then mentions Rebecca Yaros' book as aimed only at arousal. While it does contain sex scenes, the majority of the story is just a regular fantasy plot. While I agree Yaros' work should be age restricted, I am wary of the website that the video comes from. It's a district in Utah - quite a religious state ofc.

I'm Christian myself but they seem overzealous, marking out a list that includes books that include 'controversial political views, criticism of religion, alternate sexualities (so gay & bi), gender (this I agree w). However, I just hope the correct call to restrict age appropriate books doesn't end up restricting any book that had a gay character, makes some political or religious statement nit all parents agree w etc. Children are coddled as Jonathan Haidt points out but then given inappropriate Internet stuff, however a different kind of coddling isn't ideal either.

I know this kind of group is trying to influence the UK too, and while I agree w some of their points, I hope we don't tip too far that way. There's a reason the pilgrims left us on the Mayflower...

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AliasGrace47 · 06/05/2025 21:11

MojoMoon · 06/05/2025 20:56

No idea about this case and certainly not clicking on a random Google docs link..

But why are you focused on libraries and regulating what is in them? The vast majority of books read in the US are bought, not borrowed. You can label a book 16 plus in a library but still buy it in a shop.

Nice throwing in of critical race theory at the end - what exactly are you worried about and how does this relate to explicit young adult fiction? What do you even think critical race theory is?

Sorry, here is the transcript.

Transcription of video "Megan's Story: Lost in the Pages
Transcription of video "Megan's Story: Lost in the Pages."

The time I really started to love reading was probably kindergarten, and I just loved the Sam I Am books. I love books because it's just like an adventure, an escape, another opportunity, and an experience.

I lived all over Cache Valley. Elementary school—that's when COVID started, and COVID made it so I had online school for a while. Through online school, I started reading a bit more—books that were descriptive in nature.

When I went to Logan Middle School, that's when it really got worse. It was more open, more readily accessible, and it was normalized. I hadn't had a phone until this year—February 14th is when I got it. The stuff that I accessed online was a lot more roses and happy, like romance books—maybe kissing, but it wasn't descriptive about explicit sex. The books that I had found and had been recommended were definitely that—explicit sex.

When I started reading books like that, I started reading more because it was more open in middle school. It piqued my interest, and I started to read more like that, probably because I was just beginning to figure out human nature. My hormones were beginning to change, I was starting to get my period, and I also am really good at learning—I love to learn. I found everything I could on it, and I got heavily into that stuff.

It became an addiction. I had to read something like that, or I didn’t get that fix of dopamine—whatever you want to call it. It progressively got worse because after I found out what it was and what they do, basically, I felt like I needed that connection with someone. So I went online, and I chatted with pretty much pedophiles and a whole bunch of other people, just trying to find that connection.

I put myself and my family at risk. I acted like the character in my book, like life was the book for me. In my mental view, I was struggling so badly, and I just didn’t completely understand it. I was struggling so badly, and that was an escape. That was like the only thing that would make me happy.

I was a super extroverted kid, but the more I read this, the more I thought, I don’t need friends. I just need this connection. So I started distancing myself—not only from friends. I grew to hate myself. I grew to hate others. I hated my mother. I hated my sister. I hated everyone.

As it continued to get worse, I started lying more and hiding things more. I had to go to juvie a few times because of how bad my relationship with my mother was. It definitely stemmed from normal romance because I loved that love connection that was stated in books, which can really be beautiful. But then it went into something more explicit, and the explicit content definitely brought me to that point.

People literally make brain neurons that connect to the thought. As a kid, if you read that, you can't get it out of your head. You can’t just close the book and forget about it. It ingrains itself in your brain, and it will be there forever. You can’t get that innocence back, and you will not be able to unsee those words.

So when people say that you can just close the book if you don’t like what you’re reading, I heavily disagree. Because if you’re given that book in the first place, you’re going to read it. And if you read it, you have that in your head. If it's in schools, it's affecting people that it's not helping, and they’re being suggested it. So it’s being normalized—being normalized by teachers, by librarians, by their peers. So it just recirculates into teenagers, and it’s given over and over until they are eventually numb to it and have not been able to peel back that film that literally covers their every sense of it.

They can’t see what’s right and what’s wrong. It’s like putting a blindfold over someone and expecting them to run.

Fourth Wing—that was heavily influenced by peer pressure because it was a very popular book. Everyone read it, and it was like a popularity contest of who knew what was in the book. A friend who recommended it to me specifically had those pages marked.

The point isn’t about romance or a cute love story anymore. It’s about getting your reader in that aroused state. That shouldn’t be in children’s libraries. Why let schools have this on the off chance that it’ll help someone, when in actuality, it is more harmful than it is helpful?

I think that if that teacher hadn’t initially recommended that author, I wouldn’t have seen it as quite so normal. I don’t think the librarian even knew how much of a butterfly effect that would be. I’m sure she was just trying to share a cool story with an awesome reader. I don’t think she understood how detrimental that book in my hands could be.

I wish I could go back. I would take all of those stupid books out of my hands and just let myself be innocent, because it’s so hard to stay innocent these days. So just let them have it for as long as they possibly can.

If you’re watching this and you're used to reading books like this, I advise you—set some down. Set them down for a long, long time, like three months, and then see how differently you act and how differently you think.

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AliasGrace47 · 06/05/2025 21:14

It's a sad & disturbing story. I do think getting obsessed w sexual material in books is fairly unusual. Online porn is normally what's addictive. I wonder also if religion played a part. I've been reading Tanya Erzen's book about the Twilight fandom & she says that v religious girls loved it bc they felt they could be like Bella & enjoy the sexy bits despite themselves (as Edward has to keep denying her - Meyer's a Mormon remember, and that fed into it)

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MojoMoon · 06/05/2025 21:25

If she ended up in juvenile prison a few times (supposedly for having bad relationship with her mother which isn't a crime so suspect she is not being exactly upfront about what she did) merely from reading some mildly explicit YA romance about a dragon tamer, then I suppose we should be thankful she wasn't accessing hard core online porn like other teens, as god knows what she would have done then

tripleginandtonic · 06/05/2025 21:29

We were reading Flowers in the attic in secondary school. Made me think bible belt America was as backward and hypocritical as it appears to be today.

Emotionalsupporthamster · 06/05/2025 21:31

I think we have more to worry about with teens than reading Judy Blume. It’s fine for teens to be interested in sex. It’s normal. Reading a bit of saucy stuff isn’t the worst thing, it’s better than watching porn and is not exploitative. I don’t buy the link to speaking to paedophiles online at all.

AliasGrace47 · 06/05/2025 21:44

MojoMoon · 06/05/2025 21:25

If she ended up in juvenile prison a few times (supposedly for having bad relationship with her mother which isn't a crime so suspect she is not being exactly upfront about what she did) merely from reading some mildly explicit YA romance about a dragon tamer, then I suppose we should be thankful she wasn't accessing hard core online porn like other teens, as god knows what she would have done then

Gosh, I missed that. I suppose there must be more to it...

That's the thing, these groups have a valid point & then luridly exaggerate it. (Eg One of the women who does Moms For Liberty claimed to have seen 2 girls 'French kissing' at a school Pride parade, but it turned out to be just a quick peck, as shown on video)

And the way she described pressure to read the dirty bits, ok that's bad for her.. But otoh that's been around for years. My mum's version of that was Judy Blume ofc, in the early 80s. In a way I feel like reading something a bit out of your comfort zone & gradually getting used to more challenging stuff (doesn't need to be sex, could be politics, upsetting, ambiguous morals) is just part of growing up. The crucial thing is having the self control instilled by parents to gradually ease yourself in rather than going overboard.

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AliasGrace47 · 08/05/2025 12:53

tripleginandtonic · 06/05/2025 21:29

We were reading Flowers in the attic in secondary school. Made me think bible belt America was as backward and hypocritical as it appears to be today.

Yes, - that reminds of when the cofounder of Moms For Liberty, Bridget Ziegler turned out to be bisexual & spend a lot of time in bars w her husband, taking pics of prospective candidates for threesomes. (https://eu.heraldtribune.com/story/news/politics/2024/05/17/memo-shows-florida-gop-power-couples-hunt-for-threesome-partners-bridget-christian-ziegler/73731572007/)

One of these women later accused the husband of rape tho this was dropped. You could argue supporting laws which were at least partly to regulate age inappropriate rather than gay per se stuff isn't hypocritical. But it hardly promotes good Christian & conservative values to predatorily unicorn hunt, esp as a married woman.

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pointythings · 08/05/2025 13:00

I think most of this has to be laid at parents' doors. My parents let me read pretty much what I wanted when I hit my teens - there was no YA fiction, but plenty of spicy stuff. However, we always talked about what we were all reading and were open about it. Sex was also not a taboo, because this was in the Netherlands. That kind of support and grounding is often what is missing.

Censorship is not the answer.

TokyoKyoto · 08/05/2025 13:06

I've got two grown kids and it wasn't till recently that I realised how prevalent explicit fan fiction is online. One of my kids used to co-write stories with a friend and put them on Tumblr 😩I suspect not explicit ones but idk. What I'm saying is that kids have access to a TON of written porn and books in libraries is barely scratching the surface of that - banning them is completely ideological anyway.

Agrumpyknitter · 08/05/2025 13:13

personally I have had enough of American right wing Christian fundamentalists trying to influence policies in the U.K, like trying to influence our abortion laws and now this. Instead of being so focused on reading which builds empathy, the discussion should be why are so many Christians in American lacking in empathy right now that they’re actively discouraging their followers to have empathy saying it’s a weakness they need to root out. You have a white seemingly Christian American woman who has managed to raise over 500’000 dollars on a Christian website for her legal fund after she called a 5 year old black autistic child a N***, she doesn’t regret the use of the word. I was born in this country and Christians here have been so welcoming and actually put into practice their faith. But I feel very worried about this shift to restrict access to books, to women’s rights over here.

LBOCS2 · 08/05/2025 13:14

Teens reading above-age appropriate material has been around for years and years, and the majority of them do not end up in juvie with a terrible relationship with their parents. 30 years ago we were passing around copies of Clan of the Cave Bear and Pillars of the Earth at school, with the ‘interesting’ bits dog eared. Ao3 (which hosts a LOT of fanfic and has been around since 2008ish?) clearly marks out where fanfics are mature or explicit. I’m not saying it’s not easily available, but it is pretty easily identifiable, and there are an awful lot of kids who aren’t getting into similar trouble as a result of this. That transcript reads like her not taking responsibility for her own actions, finding an easy scapegoat and it being accepted because it feeds into the narrative the adults around her want to believe.

Incidentally, those books are not Young Adult, which generally doesn’t include explicit material and is aimed at 14-18 - they very much fit the category of New Adult which is a relatively new categorisation encompassing books with more adult themes but a similar coming of age story but for 18-25yos.

As a parent now I do police what my teen reads but with a relatively light touch. I’d rather she was introduced to more explicit material (and I do mean dragon-tamer mainstream-explicit, rather than Wattpad explicit) in the context of a healthy relationship between two people with plenty of communication and consent rather than the violent and transactional nature of porn which is also freely available to them online.

Britneyfan · 08/05/2025 13:35

@MojoMoon 🤣🤣🤣 I was thinking much the same thing, that’s ummmm…. quite a leap she made there! 🤣 Totally agree with a pp she is clearly someone avoiding accountability for her actions who has chosen to see this as the root of her issues because it fits with a particular narrative. We all read Judy Blume as teenagers in my day and somehow didn’t end up in juvie!

I’m personally very wary anytime the restriction of access to books is proposed, did we really learn nothing from Nazi Germany?! I am a big proponent of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and also freedom of access to information and books of all kinds.

I’m also a Christian and like a pp I’m also shocked at the level of intolerance and demonstrably un-Christian behaviour I can see coming from a huge swathe of evangelical Christian Trump supporters in the US.

My parents did not limit or monitor my reading at all, and I was always a very advanced reader and would literally just devour whatever I could get my hands on. I think it helped give me a lot of insight to different life experiences and different ideas. As well as reading the biopics of various missionaries etc that I found lying around the house, I would also occasionally come across New Age/Occult type books. I suspect my parents would actually have been horrified if they’d realised I was reading those books, but it allowed me to understand other belief systems and really make up my own mind about things. At the same time the ground rules I have laid for my own teen in terms of their reading is basically anything else goes including sex and violence etc but no occult books!

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