To think I can apply for post grad med school with a 2.2 in languages from 15 years ago?

[Changednameadviceneededxx]

Please be nice to me 🙈

Name changed but I'm a mumsnet lover.

I've been thinking about studying medicine. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted to be a doctor. But I just never thought it possible.

I've got an english language degree and by the time i apply, would (fingers crossed) have a c2 cert in French.

But i only got a 2.2 😔, and I haven't worked since a corporate grad job that I did after uni, and haven't worked for close to a decade due to raising dc.

I'm a single mum so would study around raiding dc. I can't currently get work experience whilst I raise them, but would be able to study.

How crazy am I to think that a med school, somewhere in London, would accept me, with these circumstances.

I don't have science a levels either, just languages.

Tia x

Not physicians associates , there are very big questions over these roles atm and distinct possibility that they will be phased out if they don’t die a natural death because GP practices aren’t employing them.

They are being used in hospitals and indeed there was an announcement last week that numbers trained will be increased. .

As I have explained up thread, all doctors jobs are now open to international applications. Hospitals/GPs cannot simply hire one of their promising F2s for an entry level job, but have to sift possibly hundreds of applications from around the world and then recruit the best qualified, even if they have no NHS experience. In some hard to recruit/rural areas, they know that many international recruits will move on to more popular cities as soon as they are able, but they still cannot prioritise those already working for the Trust.

Even worse when it comes to training positions. DD only knows of one F2 in her deanery, ie several Trusts (and one F3) who have been accepted for training. Over half the training positions in the UK this year went to graduates of overseas medical schools and many (both international and domestic) are unwilling to consider positions in hard to recruit areas.

This has left to a bizarre position where good F2s can't be hired and are having to leave either the profession or the UK, and hospitals are having to carry a large number of vacancies as the people who they can hire are not applying for jobs or not staying. PAs are not a great solution, as they have had less medical training, are less qualified and have quite restrictive contracts (they don't work nights, get time off in lieu if they work weekends, are guaranteed quite a lot of training time, and are better paid than F2s) but they are the only solution available. At least until the government chooses to amend immigration law to give priority to those already resident in the country.

BMA gave this statement, they are not happy with the way PA roles are being used.

Such utterly bitchy comments about a 2:2!!
Sorry in the same way a A grade at A level in the 80s was way harder to achieve than it is now, a 2:2 back in the day was an OK grade.
I did my first degree without the internet, doing hand written assignments, having to attend lectures, having to go to a library, no 'how to write essay' lessons like there is nowadays. God help your kids if they are ever average

Not to mention, I believe the physio criteria is a lot more stringent

I have to agree with the PP about physician associate training being a poor choice. Recruitment has slumped with the controversy, job adverts closing within 24 hours with 100+ applicants, graduates working as medical secretaries and as hospitality staff.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9qgxxxpggyo.amp

The BMA supported the inclusion of entry level doctor jobs on the list of skill shortage jobs, leading to the current problem of F2s not being able to find work.

If they cared about career progression for newly qualified doctors and for, say, doctors trying to return after a career break, they would have lobbied for something like the Australian approach of a Resident Migrant Labour Test, giving priority to qualified applicants already in the country. This year is a bloodbath for F2s with many having no option but to look overseas and others taking panic Masters or leaving the profession altogether. The Government keeps expanding medical school places, but hospitals can't employ their F2s unless those F2s can offer the sort of experience and additional qualifications that the best overseas applicants are able to do.

Training, even less popular specialities, have also become very largely the preserve of F1/F2s allocated to major teaching hospitals or those who have the support of training centres overseas, ie those with access to research, publication and the other CV enhancements that are now required. There is plenty of evidence that those with training numbers want to stay in teaching hospitals and major cities, so not only can't hospitals hire their better F2s, but Consultants are having to cover registrar vacancy rates of up to 50%.

Because health is devolved, F1/F2s are on different contracts, so some work no nights and a given personal development days. In other places using the old contract even compulsory training often happens in your own time and staff shortages mean lots of long shifts and nights. So though these F2s would be happy to stay in less popular places, they are competing for the next step against strong national and international competition with both arms tied behind their backs.

The BMA have a choice. They may finally have decided that replacing doctors with less qualified staff is not a good thing, but there is no evidence that they support prioritising retention of UK resident doctors over overseas recruitment. If the immigration approach is not sorted, PAs will continue to be needed to plug gaps.

(Or perhaps allow newly qualified doctors to apply for PA positions?)

I've not read the whole thread OP, just your posts and I see that you have concluded that this is an unrealistic dream. I tend to agree, though I'd say your age, domestic situation and lack of work experience are probably more of a barrier than your academic achievements. In all honesty, a medical degree isn't that hard academically speaking.. The entry requirements are high because there's a high demand but you don't actually need to be any kind of genius to do it. The problem you have is that you would be competing against a lot of people for a small number of places and (and I don't mean to be cruel) you haven't got a lot to bring to the table. I suspect that if you'd had a successful career in something else and a proven history of relevant voluntary work demonstrating a good understanding of and commitment to the profession your exam results would be far less of an issue. But without a stellar academic record and no other work experience you're not going to stand out as a candidate.
A 2:2 needn't be a barrier to success. My DH has a 2:2 from a poly in fact and this week he'll be representing his industry at the United Nations. He's had a much more unusual and interesting career than me! That result isn't something you need to be ashamed of and it doesn't define you but in this context it will be an issue because you don't have other factors that would make you a particularly appealing candidate.
Plus as I am sure others have said, without bomb proof childcare arrangements it is going to be extremely hard for you to complete the course as whilst it might not be beyond you in academic terms it is very content heavy and needs a lot of time. And then it only gets worse once you've qualified. Professional exams are very demanding and of course you're studying for them whilst working long and anti social hours. I didn't have my first child until I had done all my post grad exams and the others weren't born until I was a consultant, plus I have an extremely supportive husband, and I still found it extremely difficult to juggle parenting and work. Medical school is the easy bit and even that would be hard in your circumstances.
If you are interested in theatre work I'd suggest you look into training as an Operating Department Practitioner (ODP). That would still be a challenge and the working hours may be an insurmountable problem for you right now but it could be something that becomes a possibility for you in the future. There's more career progression options for ODPs these days. I know someone who is now working as an advanced practitioner in ICU having previously been an ODP and another who has done additional training and is now a surgical assistant in theatre - both roles that have quite a lot of overlap with what the middle grade doctors do. Still not an easy option by any means, but a very important and rewarding career that may be a little more attainable for you. There are lots of roles in healthcare that are less well known than the obvious ones of medicine and nursing so have a look as there may be something else which interests you. But stop letting that 2:2 sit over you like a dark cloud whatever you do!

@JodyFarr just so you know, that was one of the most unpleasant comments that I’ve ever read on mumsnet in all of my many years hanging around here (and that’s saying something). Spiteful, cruel, vicious and unnecessary. Who the fuck hurt you? And whilst I’m gutted for @Changednameadviceneededxxthat her backstory is so sad and traumatic, I hope that reading her explanation as to why school and uni were a bit harder for her than they were for you has made you think that it might be wise to keep your smug and unpleasant (and faux naïve) questions to yourself in future. I also hope that it’s made you feel doubly bad that she handled the question with such good grace and didn’t call you a massive cunt, which she would have absolutely had every right to do. And I’m not offended on the OPs behalf because I’m insecure about my degree classification or because I had anything similar happen to me in my youth; I’m just not an arsehole and am dismayed that no one has called you out for being such a giant one.

@Changednameadviceneededxx now that I’ve said that, I’m another person wondering if you’ve considered looking at midwifery. My sister trained as a midwife after a first degree in an arts subject and whilst she had science GCSEs they were at grade D due to the physics grade dragging the whole dual-science grade down. She had always had aspirations to work in medicine of some kind, but she was never very good at maths and was excellent at English and other humanities/arts subjects at school, so was pigeonholed early on (as the English school system tends to do, sadly). Anyway, she’s been a qualified midwife for many years now and is exceptional at it. As another poster mentioned there are lots of various routes the career can take and she’s now doing a job that she didn’t even know existed when she first decided to study midwifery all of those years ago. Well worth a look and much more family-friendly from a training POV as it takes less time and once qualified you can much more easily work part time/in different roles with more regular hours.

Anyway, good luck in whatever you decide to do and well done for all that you’ve accomplished and overcome in your life so far. And please try to make peace with that “Desmond”. I know it’s hard to believe on here and in the way the media go on sometimes, but the majority of people still don’t have a degree even; you are brilliant and you are more than a number (or than two numbers separated by a colon!)

More people got 2:2s and 3rds than got 1sts and 2:1s when I graduated, back in the dark ages!

You need an access course for sure, if you did well in that and managed to get some work experience as well then it’s possible but as it stands you don’t have the prerequisite science qualifications

@JodyFarr

when i graduated half the year got 2:2 or lower. Grade inflation means 1st have gone from 7% to 26% on the exact course I did over 25 years.

anyone over 40 with a 2:2 would have received a 2:1 these days is what I have been told by my old university and they said so in a reference!

Thank you for this response @LambriniBobInIsleworthISeesYa and I apologise for the time taken to respond!

I hadn't thought about midwifery actually, but I do like the idea of it! I'd make a terrible nurse, but the thought of bringing a baby into the world is a lovely one.

Thank you for saying those kind things about me. I do need to move on from the desmond! I really do 💕

I think that's what inspired the French study for me as well, just to prove to myself that I can study 😪

@BrightNewLife thank you, and I agree, I do need to really think about what I want to achieve

@ByLimeAnt I don't know! I just think of all the stuff I've seen that nurses have to put up with! But a surgical nurse career could be amazing for me

I've been goggling midwifery and the operating department practitioners, thanks everyone for the recommendations.

I think that i feel safe in a hospital. I know lots of people hate them but I don't, for some reason 🙌

its worth mentioning it takes about ten years (and a doctoral degree) to train as a psychologist, so maybe not as straightforward as the other options. It’s also a similar level of competition to grad medicine

Midwifery is wonderful but I'm not sure why it was billed as being more family friendly! Shorter training than medicine because it is 3 years but night shifts and weekends right from your first year on your placements. It's tough. Tough training and not an easy profession to be in right now. Really think about what being a midwife means and why you might want to do it. It isn't about bringing babies in to the world, that's just the end product.

Medicine and midwifery are very different too so try to take a step back and forget about whether you have the grades or time to do something and really look at what you want from your life and your job. Then the path might seem a little clearer.

It would cost you a fortune to go back to undergraduate medicine, after getting your GCSEs and A-levels.

I think I would choose an allied health profession that you like the look of, radiographer, physiotherapist, surgical nurse.

Once you are settled in that role, if you still feel the itch (I think it's just a general dissatisfaction, didn't live up to potential, itch with Drs seen as the pinnacle of achievement tbh, given the choices you've made at every point of studying) then some universities have courses called Medicine for Healthcare Providers with part time study alongside your paid role before moving into the last two years of medicine.

That would be cheaper for you and easier to adjust to the kind of studying you'll need to do, you'll also have some qualifications and work experience in a useful role for your self esteem to fall back on.

Good luck, I hope you find a path that makes you happy

I don't think it is necessarily 'family friendly' but more so than medicine as you are not going to get shuttled across the country and once qualified you can do community so not be doing nights.
I agree about it being tough and the idealistic view of OP as it being bringing babies into the world.
I remember being on labour ward as a medical student and holding some poor woman's baby whilst everyone battled with her haemorrhaging out- I suddenly realised her blood was lapping against my clogs. It's a grim business when things start going wrong!

If you think you'd make a terrible nurse, what is it about midwifery that you think would be different? I mean they ARE different! But midwives still have to deal with/do a lot of the same things that nurses do!

I think I would choose an allied health profession that you like the look of, radiographer, physiotherapist, surgical nurse.

I think the OP would struggle without GCSE physics.
DD is doing radiography as a post grad degree (she already has a STEM degree), and the students who don't have science backgrounds are really struggling to understand the physics content.