Family fall out over sister seeing my son

[PiscesMama]

Hi,

I really need some advice on my situation with my family. I'm a single parent to my 2 year old, his Dad and family have never been on the scene so it's just my family. When I was pregnant I hadn't spoken to my older sister in about a year, she is quite a bully, she didn't acknowledge my pregnancy, or my son being born, she would visit my parents when we were there and completely ignore us both. It came to a head and I told her that if she wanted a relationship with him, that meant me too and she was to start treating me better. My mum looks after him during holidays from nursery so I kept finding out almost by accident that she had been spending time there then, never making any effort to see us otherwise or see me and my son together. She makes effort with gifts etc so I have felt like I can't say anything plus she is such an aggressive character and my Mum always backs her up.
I just recently booked a holiday for me and my son, which my Mum asked to come on after I booked it. My sister then told me 2 days before we were going that she and her friend had booked the same site and were joining us. I was fuming as I felt like my holiday had been totally hijacked and I feel so uncomfortable with her. I made the best of it and just focussed on my son as I had spent a fortune and planned for so long but it did ruin it a bit for me. I had exchanged a few voice notes with my sister when she had told me she was coming, and in them I was obviously talking about being quite annoyed it had been arranged behind my back and the holiday not being what I had planned.
Skip forward to today, my little boy had a last minute sleep over at my parents last night so I went to collect him and my sister was there. My Dad had told me this morning he was 'just going to the park' which gave me the impression he was taking him. But actually she took him herself. I'm aware none of this might be 'alarm bells' but I've made it really clear to my mum that I don't trust my sister with my son. She is very vindictive, she previously had a step son who she lost when the relationship ended and she never had children, she spat at me during a row when my son was just 6 weeks old that I 'don't deserve him' (because she had lost her stepson) and I've just always been so worried that she might do something to my son because she is so spiteful. She is very manipulative and it really works on my mum; I can see through it but I can't beat her at this game because I am an honest person and I get frustrated at other people when they can't see it. So today I saw her at my mum's and I did go in and say I'm annoyed again that you're all sneaking around again, first the holiday and now this, why do you have to only come and see him when I am not here etc.
My Mum of course came straight down on her side and said she will not stop my sister going to her house, even if my son is there. I said I understand that but I don't want her around my son. For context, she has also been calling him things like 'a toad' 'weirdo' 'ratbag' and he is walking around saying 'im a weirdo' and getting upset when I correct him. She is not an influence I want in his life at all. I don't know how to maintain a relationship with my family, let my son maintain that relationship and not have her be in his life. I feel like the more she is in life the more damage she will do. I also can't have it get to a point where she is poisoning him against me for example. He is 2 at the moment and adores me, but I know what she is like and I wouldn't put it past her to slag me off to him as he gets older and as I am a single parent, I haven't got anyone to back me up against it.
I don't trust her and if I needed any more proof that I can't, she sent voice notes I sent her about my mum coming on holiday, to my mum (out of context) to make my mum think I didn't want her there. So she was just trying to stir things up and damage mine and my mum's relationship - and it has worked because we aren't speaking now, and my mum thinks it's my fault and my sister is an angel. How do you win against people like this?
My mum has my son in holidays so I can ask the nursery to extend his contract which will mean my sister will have no option to keep sneaking round to see him when I'm not there, but that will definitely cause more trouble between me and my mum.
I've said to my mum that she isn't respecting my wishes as his mum but she just fires back at me that she is also her parent and is welcome in her house whenever.
I feel so lonely and stuck - I know it's a long post but appreciate if you have read it!

"For context, she has also been calling him things like 'a toad' 'weirdo' 'ratbag' and he is walking around saying 'im a weirdo' and getting upset when I correct him"

Ask your Mum if she'd be happy to tell that to the safeguarding lead in her school. If not, why not?

It's obvious that OP comes from a toxic family where her sister was the favourite who always had her mum's support. People from difficult families often end up in toxic relationships/marriages as they don't know what a healthy relationship looks like.

OP wants something different for her son so she needs to keep him away from her sister and her mum.

What a nasty thing to say. There's absolutely nothing here to make you think that.

Would you tolerate someone who is nasty to you then insulted your child to his face, to the extent he calls himself the names she calls him? If you would, you don't deserve to have children.

OP, I think all you can do is never see your mum at her house, never let your child go to her house, and insist on any contact taking place in your own home. It sounds as though your mum and your sister are not too dissimilar.

OP, you say, “today, my little boy had a last minute sleep over at my parents last night so I went to collect him” - today is Sunday. Why was he sleeping over at your DP’s without you on a Saturday night, when you’re clearly not happy about the dynamic between him and your DSis? And why was he there long enough this morning for your DPs to take him to the park? If you know what they’re like, and that they’ll let your DSis have control of him, why are you letting him sleep over at all without you?
I would have been fuming about the holiday, and I’d make it clear to your DM that in future, you won’t even be telling her about holiday arrangements because of what happened. As far as your DSis being at your parents is concerned, you can’t expect your DM to ban her just because your DS is there - they are as much her parents as they are yours. But you have control over whether or not your DS sleeps over at your parents’, and I’m wondering why you leave him overnight when you know the situation with your sister?
How will extending your son’s contract at nursery to include holidays upset your mother if she’s currently not speaking to you? I think you’d be best advised to cool things a little with your family, and tell your mother that you were upset by the things your sister is saying to your son about being a weirdo, and that you feel your mother has betrayed your trust by letting your sister take him out when you specifically asked that she shouldn’t.

Maybe she works on Saturdays?

Thanks for this and yes @LadyQuackBeth also - I have actually made efforts with my sister against my better judgement. My sister is intentionally vindictive. For instance, a couple of years ago when there was a 'rule of 6' who could go out for dinner during COVID, my sister insisted on bringing her (then) partner (who she was already cheating on and ready to walk out on and never actually took to any of our previous family meals, to my Dad's 60th. She only did it so I wouldn't be able to go. I didn't have my son then, she had her step son and with my Mum and Brother, the numbers pushed me out of my Dad's 60th birthday; I had to take my Dad out for tea instead which was still lovely but my Mum didn't back me up then either and it was me who lost out. She's bullied me a lot in the past and I've let a lot go because I'm a Mum now and frankly yes it is childish and I haven't got time for it. I hosted Xmas at my house and I invited her round. It's all been surface level polite but I just don't trust her and I feel like the sneaking around proves that I can't. As well as these comments she makes to him which are upsetting me to hear him repeating now and no , they aren't affectionate, they are just the type of comments she is so used to saying because it comes so easy to her to be sharp and nasty to people and about people. So where we might say 'ah cheeky monkey' , clever boy, well done, wow! she goes to 'you little toad' or 'you're such a weirdo'.
I didn't want to rock the boat any more with her because frankly I've got enough on my plate being a working single mum with a 2 year old; I do pick my battles and I don't tend to pick them. I just can't leave this alone and let it be to the detriment of my son.

@PiscesMama why the hell do you want to stay in contact with a toxic family like this?? that includes your mother!

If it was my child they would not be returning to my mother’s house end of. Forget everything else, your sister is calling him names and they are allowing it.

You mentioned your dad, what are his thoughts?

There is a lot of use of 'toxic' on here and I do just want to point out my parents are great grandparents and they adore my son. I trust them fully with him and he adores them too. He very rarely stays over and I think he has stayed maybe 4 times in his life, usually when I have been ill and he's over 2 now. We had spent Saturday afternoon with them and it was getting later, I was probably noticeably exhausted and he wasn't playing ball getting ready to go home etc. My mum offered that he could stay if I wanted to go and catch up on some sleep, some washing etc and I refused a few times and said no its fine I always manage. I thought about it and knew he probably would enjoy himself and as the time was so close to bedtime it would actually be more unsettling to take him home (again, we don't usually stay that late but it was about 7.45pm). I asked him and he wanted to stay so that was that. I was at their house to pick him up by 10am this morning, I was building him a new bike at home, my sister is never up that early so she must have had the text from my Mum to go round. What annoyed me was I had already text my Dad asking how he was (my son) and he said 'yes he is great, just going to the park', to which I replied saying 'oh, are you taking him alone, watch him as he has a tendency to run off' (boys) and my Dad never gave any clue that actually my sister was taking him to the park, so I feel like it's all so sneaky and behind my back. I trust my parents implicitly with my son otherwise he wouldn't go there or stay there , it's like his second home. The problem is my sister, and of course they as parents to her don't see anything wrong by letting her take him to the park, even if it's clearly been against my wishes.

To be honest, you have hit the nail on the head about what I am concerned about, the turning him against me.
I know my sister doesn't like me, it's mutual and I'm not bothered. But I know she hasn't got the boundaries to not twist my son against me when he's old enough. I saw when she was with her step son, she would often talk about his real mum in front of him and really slag her off which I always found so disgusting and I always stepped in to distract him so he couldn't hear if I was there. I can't have her doing that with my son.

Personally I'd say nothing and just do no more unsupervised contact. Talking previously hasnt changed so you need to adjust your own behaviour

Could you work less and earn any benefits to top you up?
Don't announce anything to your mum. Just wait until next school holiday and when she asks for him just say 'oh thanks, but your hours/contract at work/availability has changed so he'll be in nursery, but how about we meet up at local soft play/national trust place/your house or hers on xyz date? Looking forward to a catch up with you and dad.'
Keep it easy, breezy and iron clad. If she acts disappointed or passive aggressive - ignore it. If she outright asks or complains then you just make the right noises - oh yes it's a shame about my work situation but we are both looking forward to our meetup on xyz date. And then change the conversation. They are happy to sneak around and bend the truth so you can do the same!

It's shocking she calls him names and they allow it - she is a bully! I would have a read up on narcissistic tendencies and scapegoat/goldenchild dynamics.. if you don't learn new techniques/boundaries and put your mum on an 'information diet' then they will poison your son against you.. the first 4 years is integral for his attachment and brain development. Don't let him absorb that he is less than/weirdo for normal stuff. He will pick up on the dynamic of your sister saying things and your mum looking uncomfortable and ignoring it, or worse encouraging it (unconsciously or not) - this isn't really something you want him to learn is a way to show affection.

I agree - no more babysitting from grandparents which absolutely sucks for you

If you don’t want your son around your sister then you need to stop using your mum for childcare. It’s not fair for her to have to tell her own DD she can’t come round. It’s for you to make alternative arrangements as you’re clearly not comfortable with your sister around your son.

Toad and ratbag aren't particularly bad.

As if this would even get a reaction from a "safeguarding lead".

Thanks, like I have said earlier on the post, I have never asked my Mum to be my childcare - he goes to nursery while I go to work it was my Mum who insisted I only put him in for term time so she could have him during holidays. It would actually make my life easier if he went to nursery during the holidays as well for drop off /pick up reasons and not having to settle him back in to nursery after every break. I haven't asked her to stop having my sister round there but my sister seems to sneak round there when she knows he will be there without me, my Mum doesn't tell me she has been round, I find out in random ways or by tit bits of information. I did tell my Mum I wasn't comfortable with her spending time alone with him so I do think it's wrong of my Mum to now be letting her take him to the park without me even knowing, never mind asking my permission.

@PiscesMama are you listening to anyone or just denying things to yourself??? it is up to you who sees your son, it is not up to your mother! you have told her that your sis is not to see your son and she is not doing as you have requested. stop taking your son to your mother and get reliable childcare so you dont worry about your sis. get your parents to visit you instead of you visiting their house!!

OP, I get it. The trouble is, I think, that your parents aren't as trustworthy as you seem to think they are. They're not respecting your wishes. They've all repeatedly shown you how they do things. I would just gently go about your business in a way which works for you.

Then she won't have an issue repeating it. If a child in a school was walking around saying "I'm a weirdo" because he was called that at home and getting upset when corrected, it would get a reaction, or the safeguarding lead isn't doing their job properly.

I say this kindly....you are a mother and you have a duty to protect your son over and above everything else. You don't have a choice to be a people pleaser now. Maybe looking at it this way will help you give you the strength you need.

You have been conditioned by your parents to pander to this woman who has committed DV, bullies your son and you.

Organize your own childcare. Your son's wellbeing is more important than you mother's happiness.

Your mother has chosen her favourite child. She can stick with her.

My Dad agrees with me about my sister but unfortunately, he won't stick his head above the parapit and say anything so when anything hits the fan, he just ducks down until it all blows over. He has felt my sister's wrath before and she gets nasty.

Your parents are allowing your sister to go behind your back and even take him out. They won’t come to yours because they can control what happens at theirs, they are aware of how your sister is and are encouraging her to trample on your wishes and fears.Your Mum was the one who ruined your holiday because she deliberately told your sister all the details and allowed her to derail it. You are right, once you change the hours at nursery so your son won’t be in the firing line from your sister’s spite, your parents will play up, you have to put your son’s safety first and make sure he never faces her vindictiveness.

I get where you are going with this but speaking as a member of a family with decades of incest on my side of the family that was recently unearthed and is being roundly ignored and carpet swept and the other side a member is currently going through court for sexual assault having been a domestic abuser for decades sometimes it is actually them even though they are all in your family.

I feel now though that I am a bit of an unwanted to be expert on toxic families and the common thing about them is they align with the dysfunction to have an easy life. It is so hard to deal with. @PiscesMama I agree with the other posters. Your mother enables your sister, heck at a time she was playing a part in her behaviour. This starts very early on and from my experience continues forever. Keep your son away.