to be shocked to my very core by Jack and the Beanstalk?

[BroccoliSpears]

So. Jack sells cow for beans. Grows a beanstalk. Goes up the beanstalk and steals a load of the Giant's stuff. Kills the giant and lives happily ever after? Jack's mum is thrilled because they'll "never be poor again".

And the moral of the story, children, is that if someone else has something you want, you just take it from them and lamp them if they try and stop you. If the person you are stealing from is different in some way, they definitely deserve it.

And I was so pleased when someone gave dd some traditional fairy tales for her birthday. Will now consign this one to the back of the bookshelf.

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(Please note that I am not actually shocked to my very core. I just thought that would make a more interesting thread title on a dull Sunday evening).

I used to love Chicken Licken (sp) when I was little - my mum had to read it to me so often that she knew it off my heart (and can still remember most of it now LOL)......not sure why I loved it - no-one got to tell the king the sky was falling down as the fox ate them all up

Ah yes but the film I saw makes clear that the grinding bones stuff was just later propaganda, put about by Jack to justify his ruthless murder and robbery of an innocent victim.

Chukkypig - not one of Hans Christian Anderson's better known stories (can't imagine why).

was it? Oh, I always quite liked the image of bones making flour but I was a gory child.

Lol at watch out now here I come. How boring.

Portblacks - nail on the head.

They should either have left it completely grusome and it would be understandable that Jack stole / killed, or they should have sanitized both the giant and Jack. Maybe they could have had a mediated group session where Jack explains that he felt threatened by the Giant and his castle at the top of the beanstalk, looking down on him with all his gold and expensive things, and the giant could have told Jack that he only eats people because he feels that the villagers don't accept him because of his size.

What about the old woman who lived in a shoe. She beat all her kids before they went to bed, and they didnt even do anything wrong!
The words have been changed for that nursery rhyme i think, havnt they?

Yes the 'taffy' poem. I'm sure there's as bad about lots of races, colours and creeds. Doesn't really make it right though does it?

princess and the pea used to freak me out, she could only feel the pea as she was a true princess

I sing Oranges and Lemons to the dcs though and always repeat 'here comes the candle to light you to bed' twice instead of 'chop off your head' and DH always rolls his eyes.

The trouble is I still remember the "taffy" poem as at the time it fulfilled my need for rhyming with plenty of violence and had lovely illustrations. Well if you're 5 anyway.

My mum still has the book I have asked her not to give it to DD when she is older.

Maybe more prejudices are formed when we are young than we think.

Although I have to say I have no problem with the welsh, some of my best friends are welsh, etc etc (nips off to donk head on kitchen floor to shake marvellous illustrations out)..

But the giant stole the stuff in the first place, Jack is just getting his own stuff back, and he only kills the giant in self-defence.

Nursery rhymes and fairy tales are full of dubious morality.

How about "goosey goosey gander" "there I met an old man who wouldn't say his prayers to I took him by the left leg and threw him down the stairs".

I remember Jack's giant as being a terrifying character - I'd definately have nicked his golden egg and made a run for it.

However in terms of my childhood nightmares this horrible tale featured very heavily. Was anyone else infliced with this as a child?

DS loves J and the B. Think it is because most fairy stories have a female protagonist. Obviously there is a Freudian interpretation to the whole thing...
arts.guardian.co.uk/theatre/drama/story/0,,2219974,00.html

blimey sillybut - never seen that one before !

I had a Struwwelpeter book. Scary stuff! Though I adored it as a child.

Does anyone else know Max and Moritz? Horrid! Loved that too.

Sillybut - that's horrific but very cooool

and

Goosey Gander is actually about the Civil War - Oliver Cromwell's army used to Goosestep (long before the Nazis) and the puritans would throw the chappy down the stairs for not saying his prayers and was therefore poss a Parliamentarian.

GOD i'm dull.

Oh yes strawpeter we had the whole book.

It was bloody terrifying.

Hi ChukkyPig,
I don't mind you sharing my name....how long have you been posting? I've only been on for a few months.
I'm Welsh, but I don't take the "Taffy" rhymes personally.
However, one change I am happy with:
eeny meeny miney mo
catch a piggy by the toe

I had forgotten about it in fact but am now scared again. The picures were creepy.

Another one to ask my mum to keep away from DD!

Strawpeter terrifying not the welsh! X-posted again...!

I always catch a piggy by the toe. Although I suspect my parents don't...

You've got it all wrong - Jack was the vegan hero who decided to sell the cow so he didn't have to have it slaughtered, in exchange for some healthy mung beans which he grew in his garden to produce his own food and avoid the carbon footprint of going to Tesco to buy imported food.

When his beans grew, some fascist Prescott-lookalike decided to squat at the top of the stalk and collect gold, against the communist principles of the time.

Jack went up to the nasty, upper-class, carnivorous (probably fruit-shoot drinking too) bloke's house and stole the gold back in order to build a commune and subsidised nursery but the giant followed him.

Jack decided the beanstalk had been a bad idea and started to chop it down, resolving to grow celery next time as it was less trouble, reasoning that he could at least use the beanstalk for eco-building materials but the giant ignored the "beware of steep drop" signs and followed him down, leading to his own demise.

And that children, is what happens if you eat meat

Can anyone tell the end of this degree year is melting what little brain I was clinging onto?

Struwelpeter is horrific - I have a very old (1950s?) copy. Boy has thumbs cut off because he sucks them, boy falls into river and drowns because he wasn't looking where he was going, boy starves to death because he wouldn't eat his soup, someone burns alive after playing with matches - I've never had the guts to show it to my DCs!

Aren't most childrens books like that tho?

DD's school is expanding their library, so I stupidly volunteered to read books see if they are suitable...that's practically all of Roald Dahl out then along with loads of old fairytales.....

What on earth is wrong with Dahl?

Blimey. Past generations obviously felt that children needed to be frightened.

And they probably do. The same kind of instinct that leads people to go to horror films or go on scary rides at a fun-fair.

My DD loves Matilda (who told lies and was burnt to death)