AIBU to believe that this is a crime? The police say no

[powertoyourelbow]

Name change for this as outing. Person A drives into person B’s driveway. Person B drives into drive some time later. Person B sees person A and tries to reverse out to leave as they are frightened of person A. Person A jumps out of their car and opens person B’s driver door. Turns off their engine and takes keys and returns to their own car. Person B is too scared to runaway . Person B Calls 999. Police treat this as an emergency and come as blue light. They negotiate with person A and get car keys back and give them to person b person B leaves . No charges brought against person A. Police say this is not a crime.

AIBU to believe that this must be a crime?

This is how I feel.

but the police insist it is not a crime and all charges have now been dropped.

So what crime?

I am not a legal person but perhaps intimidation, harresment…. Surely something is wrong with what person A did? It just seems so wrong.

person A will now feel that they can continue to behave aggressively etc towards person B …

i do not feel critical to the police. They have been very good. Taking statements and being supportive. They say there is nothing they can do within the law …

Was it something they wanted or something that was theirs/their relatives?

Beyond the attending officers (who often get violence towards women wrong) has B contacted any individual teams or asked for a review? Have the started legal advice? I can't help feeling that this will escalate and even a shove to a woman in her 80's can be life threatening.

They were arrested for harassment. But threshold not met… i just feel that there may be another crime they could be charged with…

but again it is helpful that others do not see this as a crime… makes me sad that this person has got away with it though

If they had a legal right to it, the police would have overseen getting it back. There hasn't been a legal justification for this.

Not a crime

For harassment there has to be a “course of conduct” ie at least two occasions.

There is no specific offence of intimidation. It would likely come under a public order offence but there would have to be specific points to prove which I am guessing couldn’t be met.

What was he arrested for?

I think the attending officer got it right and they arrested A and took statements from B and others involved.

it is more that they can’t take it further and actually prosecute.

He was arrested for harassment. Person A was already being investigated for harassment of person B ‘s relative…

If one is being harassed by another then the police should be called when the harasser comes into contact with the other person

I think the 80 year old needs cameras lots of cameras

i am not intending to drip feed by the way… to me it just seemed so simple that surely A can’t do what they did and was putting it to mumsnet expecting to be mostly validated…. But see that I am wrong…

Yes we need to do this

On the face of what you originally posted, it just looks like an argument to me, but your update may have changed my mind depending on the overall circs, so it is difficult for anyone to say really.

You can always ask for a Victim Right to Review (VRR) and the case will be looked at by a higher ranking officer to see whether that was the right thing to do.

Depending on who made the decision will depend on who you go to for the VRR though. Ie police or CPS?

There’s a distinction between what’s morally ok, and what’s a crime.

There’s also a distinction between what had the potential to escalate into a crime, but was stopped before I got to that point, vs what’s a crime in itself.

It might help to keep those distinctions in mind.

Was it ok - no.
Was it reasonable to call the police - yes.
Was it a crime - no.

It.seems.clear to me.that person B trespassed and behaved in an intimidating way that was unacceptable.

It also seems to me.that the police acted suppprtively and appropriately but the matter did not meet the threshold.fkr a criminal prosecution. Hopefully what they have done will serve as a deterrent and has been noted in the even of an escalation or further incident.

Trespass is civil, harassing and being unpleasant can be criminal or civil.

I wonder if there is any merit in seeking the advice of a solicitor in relation to an injunction of some sort or at the very least a very strong cease and desist letter?

@powertoyourelbow I would regard someone driving onto my drive without permission very dimly but I believe it would be a civil breach. Could a lockable gate work/assist.

Thank you . I did not know this. We will consider doing this.

So if I opened someone’s car door and removed their keys and then sat in my car and told the police when they arrived I was going to give the keys back then no crime would have been committed

Surely if a shoplifter gets caught does this mean there wasn’t a crime if they say they were going to give the goods back?

Surely this is theft

Sadly there are lots of very real crimes that dont meet the threshold and get dropped. Many against women, such as violence or rape.

What he did would have been very upsetting for the elderly lady and I hope she is ok.
But if the crime doesnt have enough evidence ( or the guy could lie and come up with some reasonable sounding excuse to justify his behaviour “I suspected she was drunk so I removed the keys as kids were playing in the street nearby” or some nonsense) then he’d get off with the crime. So taking it to court would waste many hundreds of pounds, stress the lady annd her family, and get nowhere anyway. That’s why there is a threshold. Not because it wasn’t a crime but because nothing will happen if it got to court.

Sorry youre going through this.

Yes - he came up with a ridiculous excuse that no one would believe…

I do understand that there is a whole process and that there has to be a reasonable chance of a prosecution…

it’s just all so upsetting

Was the 80 year old in fear of a battery (I.e. that they would be physically attacked?). Feels like common assault if so?

Years ago, the sons or grandsons of Person B would have gone round to Person A and punched his lights out for the cowardly bully that he is.
It would be a crime that most police officers would ignore and he'd never again dare to upset either the elderly lady or her relative.

Can't do it these days, unfortunately.

I don't think you are wrong OP. As you wrote "it is more that they can’t take it further and actually prosecute" and this is the real problem. The police did all they could - including charging him with harassment - but the CPS make the decision to prosecute on the likelihood of success (must be at least 50:50) and they have obviously decided the odds aren't good enough. However, it's great that the police were involved and it got as far as it did because every incidence of harassment by Person B on Person A and their family members adds to the body of evidence for a future charge of harassment if Person A keeps up their appalling behaviour. Person A and their family need to make a police report every single time Person B oversteps the mark and harasses them.