To find the habit of NHS medics and clinics running late reprehensible?

[NimbleRedScroller]

I get that sometimes delays happen due to emergencies, but more often than not, it feels like patients’ time just isn’t respected. Meanwhile, we’re constantly reminded that we must be on time or risk not being seen at all. No flexibility, no leeway.

What really grinds my gears is the lack of apology or acknowledgement. We’re just expected to sit and wait indefinitely, as if our time doesn’t matter. AIBU to think this double standard is unfair?

I don't know any hcp who wants to run late or spend more time with each patient than is necessary.

They deal with the cases that come through the door, and if someone is very anxious and needs reassurance, they spend a few minutes extra. They aren't disrespecting your time, they are doing their job properly.

If you are angry with anyone, make it the administrator who calculated how much time is needed for each, and got it wrong.

YANBU it's outrageously poor planning. I had regular hospital appts at one point and they never ran less than an hour late. Even when I was booked onto an early appointment, they always started late. And then they have the nerve to put up signs in the waiting rooms about how much time is "wasted" by people not turning up, clearly complete bollocks

Don't blame the administrator who is told how much time to allocate per patient.
Blame the Tories for underfunding for decades which has meant not enough staff and therefore minimal/short appointments to ensure maximum patients get an appointment.

I'd love you to tell me where we can magic up these staff? We can't fill our vacancies as it is, with some open for two years or more? Where are all of these consultants psychiatrists, nurses, clinical managers etc? Without these we cannot see more patients or expand our services. As for those not attending, it's not a myth, across our trust 1 in 8 appointments are not attended.

Clinics are constantly overbooked to meet targets - easily 50% overbooked.
Two patients booked into the same appointment. Consultants have very little say. The clinic letters, requesting additional tests, following up results are often done in unpaid time. A significant amount of a consultant’s non patient-facing work is done in their personal time.

My doctor always runs late but is apologetic and gives the most thorough holistic appointments. I am grateful to have a health care provider who takes the time and am happy to wait.

By increasing funding for training new staff

Reading this while waiting for a nurse practitioner appointment. Now 15 mins late. It’s for my BP so it will be sky high by the time I get in there. The system is broken.

My consultant books 5 people in per hour, for four appointments to maximise patient time in the face of about 20% of patients not bothering to turn up.

Imagine 20% of doctors not bothering to show up? The disrespect for people's time is not flowing the way you think it is.

Ah if only it was that simple!! 29000 nurses qualify each year, 9000 doctors qualify each year, the number of consultants doubled between 2010 and 2023 but if they don't want to work in the sticks then the vacancies remain unfilled.

As a student practitioner, I was on placement in a community clinic. The clinic was fully booked for the day and not a single one of the patients that was booked in, turned up for their appointment. My supervisor said that that was a spectacularly bad day but that it wasn't uncommon for half of the patients to be a no-show.

As there's this huge glut of nurses, drs and consultants who would rather not work than work in the sticks, maybe there should be incentives for recruitment in harder to fill areas

On the contrary, I spend a lot of time going to hospital appointments, several of them every month across multiple departments and two hospitals (I have cancer), and my appointments are always on time, literally, to the minute and sometimes they see me early when the patient before me hasn’t arrived yet.

The only clinic that runs over is the nurse dressing trauma clinic (they check and re-dress wounds), because they literally take everyone they have to take. I am a planned surgery, but Bob, Phil and Mary next to me are all trauma cases (car accident, bad fall, suicide attempt) who came in through A&E a few days ago. There’s no real way to plan for those because you don’t know day to day what you’re gonna get.

Your hcp has probably had to attend to other things prior to starting clinic - perhaps an urgent ward patient, the morning session finishing very late, catching up on queries from the day before, trying to find an available toilet as there are never enough. All these delays will add up. Then there are the patients who don't answer when they are called, have not had the blood tests done as asked.
A patient doesn't turn up - they are then added onto the following week's clinic which gets even bigger.
Even telephone clinics get delayed - many people don't answer their phone if number withheld pops up even though they are expecting a call at 3pm, then when you phone later (via switchboard so the number comes up) you just get a torrent of abuse about not calling at 3pm or there is a lot of background noise as they have decided to go to Tesco.
Sadly HCPs just hope for a couple of no shows so clinic can be finished before blood tests, pharmacy, appointments and transport office has shut.

For newly qualified doctors there are very few training posts whether in the sticks or the cities so see no alternative but to go to Australia.
Rents are too expensive for newly qualified nurses so will go off for a stint in the middle east.
Plus these people are at the age of 25-26 and don't want to live in the middle of nowhere especially as nowhere to rent.
Considering that so many mumsnetters are all demanding the right to WFH there are some double standards around

I don’t think I’ve ever had a doctors or dentist run on time. Could be the first 8:30am appointment and turn up before the gp / nurse /midwife.

There should be more incentives for nhs doctors / nurses / midwife’s. It should also be a free uni course with housing on a contract deal of working for the nhs for X years in return otherwise costs are to be repaid.

And more flexibility in the hours. Not just a your a rota staff oh well. There should be midwifes who work just a morning or an afternoon or nights only or 9-5 or whatever. Retaining staff by having better conditions and being able to take their breaks.

My clinic often runs late. I’m a midwife and women frequently arrive a few mins late, check in and then go to the bathroom to provide their urine specimen resulting in me waiting for them. Someone may require referral to daycare or triage for an urgent concern. I may need to call a different hospital to arrange an induction of labour. A safeguarding concern may arise, someone may feel unwell getting bloods taken. A woman may be upset or struggling and need more of my time and it’s not appropriate to tell her time is up, I may need to utilise a language line interpreter and even getting someone on the phone can take up valuable appointment time. Some women come to each appointment with a list of topics they wish to discuss. I often have a student too and this can result in the appointment taking slightly longer. I try my best to keep to time but ultimately women’s needs are unpredictable and I strive for all my clients to feel they have had my attention and care to meet their meets. If I know in advance someone is likely to need more time than the allocated appointment I do try to make arrangements to see them out with clinic times. Luckily most clients understand. I know as a patient it’s frustrating and I’ve experienced long waits at clinics myself but working in the system I know most people are doing their best.

Until I retired recently I was Nurse in a busy Out Patient clinic in a major teaching hospital. The following are some of the reasons why clinics run late.
The Consultant does a ward round prior to the clinic starting, a patient may have developed a serious medical problem that the Consultant has to provide guidance to the junior doctors to manage the issue. The Consultant will require updates about the patient's condition whilst in clinic.
An afternoon clinic may start late because the doctors have been in theatre in the morning and a case has taken longer than expected. The doctors might have been in a clinic in the morning that has run late, they have not had time for lunch.
A patient receives news which is potentially life changing and requires more time than that has been allocated.
A patient arrives who presents with an urgent problem, they have decided to not seek medical advice from a GP because they've an appointment at the hospital coming up. They require urgent investigation and possible hospital admission which the doctor has to arrange.
A junior doctor sees a patient and requires advice from the Consultant, the Consultant may want to see and examine that patient themselves thus delaying other appointments.
A patient turns up to clinic a week early, it's important that they are seen as they have previously not attended appointments and if they are turned away it might be months before they return, they are added as an extra.
An elderly patient needs to be examined, they have mobility issues so it takes longer to move them safely and comfortably on and off the examination couch.
A patient or relative faints in the consulting room, they need time to recover.
A patient needs an interpreter.
It's a teaching hospital so medical students may be in clinic, they require supervision and teaching from senior doctors.
There are many more!

Some delays can’t be helped. But I was annoyed when I had a booked appointment for eye casualty and had to wait three hours after the time. As I work in the same hospital I went prepared for that. But no one else was. I can’t see why they can’t have planned appointments separate from emergencies.

I was first in clinic once, and i was 30 minutes late ..bet that was fun.

I don’t know why they just can’t tell you when you arrive “we are running 50 minutes late” so you can manage your own time.

I'm paid hourly, & if I don't work I don't get paid. I loathe the fact that their inefficiency affects me financially.

What would you prefer, a longer wait in the waiting room or a longer wait for an appointment? If they doubled the length of each appointment slot, there'd be only half as many appointments and the waiting list would grow ever longer.

They can't pluck more doctors and nurses out of their arses, for all the reasons given upthread, and they can't control how long each patient will need. And unexpected things crop up during consultations, eg a patient might mention a symptom that is new, or which wasn't in the referral letter, and might require a test or x-ray (this happened to me a few years ago).

I go prepared for a long wait. I take a book and grab a coffee on the way in. And then I sit and chill.

I'm more bothered about schlepping 8 miles on rural roads to the hospital, paying £4 to park and still have a 10 minute walk to the clinic because the hospital has been massively extended and all the parking is at one end, only to have a 2-minute convo with a doctor and a change in medication that could all have been done over the phone.

GP here. I finished work at 7pm instead of 5.30pm today, not unusual at all. I'd be absolutely delighted if all my appointments had run to time and I'd got to go home. Unfortunately the appointment times simply aren't long enough to give enough time to every patient. And yes, sometimes the first appointment of the day is running late, not because I'm late to work but, for example, an urgent home visit to a patient with palliative care needs, a phone call about a possible emergency that needs triaging, a test result that's come back unexpectedly abnormal..
I do always apologise to patients though. And I have to be honest, sometimes I'm thrilled if someone doesn't turn up for their appointment, I get time to go and have a wee!

All of this!!

You do take obtuse to a new level, whether that's deliberate or you are just a numpty I don't know. So, a) We do offer incentives and B) we aren't the only Trust with plenty of vacancies so consultants can basically lick and choose where they want to go regardless of the incentive