To look for a new cleaner?

[CheckedChecker]

My cleaner is being kicked out of her flat for not paying rent. This appears to be because her partner is an abusive gambling addict.

She has become super unreliable and frequently texts in the morning (lately) to say that she can't show up for various housing related things, some of which were definitely pre-scheduled hearings etc.

She's actually not a fabulous cleaner, but is generally pleasant and does an adequate job. I also feel sorry for her and it's annoying finding a new cleaner. My partner and I work long hours and absolutely don't have the time or energy to do the cleaning ourselves.

We have increased the rate we pay her (without her asking) and shown a lot of patience.

However, I am getting quite fed up with this and I am starting to become frustrated with other things. She is an immigrant (so am I), and she openly told me she came on some kind of dodgy visa. She also basically told me she commits benefits fraud (as she apparently claims UC despite having her deadbeat partner who lives with her but disappears for days or weeks). And yet, she complains about refugees and talks about how they just come for the benefits???? (She specifically said all of this when I was telling her I am sad because I am afraid to visit my home country with my family because of a new authoritarian, anti-immigrant regime). She also seems to repeat every dingbat conspiracy theory going (for example she is very anti COVID vaccine)

I'm really fed up with people who parrot right wing media nonsense. It also really bothers me that she seems to do dishonest things. But does this matter for a cleaner, and a person who is having a hard time?

I guess the question is wwyd? Should I give her more time to sort herself out? Have a word with her about how we need a reliable person who won't leave us in a bad position? This entire situation is causing me a lot of conflict.

YABU: give her more time
YANBU: chuck her out

Pretty obvious to stop her cleaning for you. If you read your post,I'm sure you'd advise a friend in the same shoes to do likewise.

Could you start by just telling her you need the cleaning done x times per week? Can you be flexible on times or does she have to come when scheduled?

If you have flexibility and she can clean as often as you need, I'd stick with her.

If not you'd have good reason to change.

Your call, but the rest doesn't seem that relevant. My views would be closer to yours than hers but we get nowhere by shunning people.

@CheckedChecker YANBU, why bother holding onto her? Surely there’s better cleaners out there.

@Oftenaddled How is it “shunning people” to stop hiring someone who is unreliable, not particularly good, full of drama and espouses beliefs and admits to things that make you feel uncomfortable/frustrated in your own home?

“She is an immigrant (so am I), and she openly told me she came on some kind of dodgy visa. She also basically told me she commits benefits fraud and yet, she complains about refugees and talks about how they just come for the benefits????”

I wouldn’t tolerate that from a friend let alone someone who came into my home solely to provide a service. And I wouldn’t want to enable someone committing benefit fraud either.

Reread your own post back. I think you know what you need to do. I hate dealing with situations like this, but it will be less stressful in the long run to replace her sooner rather than later.

I suppose if you have to have conversations with her, the content could matter, but why is this happening?

Anyway, your call. If she can just let herself in and clean and actually does the cleaning, I don't see the problem, but I suppose if you are stuck having these conversations the job isn't going well anyway.

If she can't actually get the job done, of course you need someone else.

You need to let her go.

as her employer you are responsible for ensuring that she has the right to work in the UK.
If she isn't a great cleaner, and is regularly failing to show up, get rid.

I think my take on it would be if she’s a good cleaner then the rest is irrelevant you’re an employer at the end of the day and you don’t need to engage with anything personal and that’s not really your problem. You need to establish from the start the hours and the rate and the expectations otherwise you have no leg to stand on. The same as you would for any service provider coming into your home
tue difference is with someone you see more regularly it’s different dynamics to a plumber for example on a job
But in the same way you are within your rights to say what you expect

OP is more likely a client than an employer

Did you get her through an agency? Is so, I'd let them know about her unreliabilty and ask for a replacement.
If you are employing her, are you following employment guidelines?
https://www.gov.uk/au-pairs-employment-law
If you are just paying her cash in hand, you are complicit in her fraud and open to investigation by HMRC

I find this attitude from some that oh well if she’s a good cleaner the rest doesn’t matter very odd.

Firstly, Op has clearly stated she’s unreliable and not a particularly great cleaner - so yeah she’s not a good cleaner.

Secondly, the “other stuff” IS clearly impacting upon OP because she’s coming in her house and sharing these odious views which OP doesn’t like.

Everyone is entitled to their views but you’re also entitled to act accordingly. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences.

I wonder if this was a tradesman coming in with angry misogynistic rants or sexist jokes and comments, would the same people be telling Op “as long as he’s good at his job the rest is irrelevant” ??

Aside from the fact hearing this kind of thing won’t endear me them it’s also very unprofessional and often indicates they have no respect for boundaries and a lack of focus in their work . She’s there to work, it’s not a visit to have tea and a natter with her besties.

I used to tutor kids in their homes, and would chat to their parents briefly, but I wouldn’t dream of dumping my views on this and that on them, even if it’s stuff I think they would largely have agreed with me on let alone blithely sharing my illegal doings.
There’s a time and a place. I kept any conversation that wasn’t about their child’s progress light and brief.

Op I think you also need to work on your boundaries too, because this shouldn’t even be a question based on your views and principles. She’s aware of how you feel about opinions like hers too and still chose to express them in your home. Together with the unreliability and not doing such a great job she has little respect for you.

Personally I think if you don’t challenge people sharing these kind of views where reasonably possible and you keep having them back in your house you send out a message that you’re ok with this, and you then become part of the problem.

Wouldn’t have her in my house sounds completely u trustworthy

I'm a bit confused by all these questions about employment law. She is only supposed to come once a week, which makes it extra difficult when she doesn't show. I am a client, as someone says above.

Never mind the employment law @CheckedChecker

The bottom line is you can let her go and find a better more reliable and professional alternative - OR if you want , you can continue to tolerate her lack of reliability and expressing those views in your home.

But my final word on this is : there’s no point complaining about her if you keep her on - she isn’t forcing her services on you. The choice is yours - good luck.

Why are you confused? My post gave you 3 options of how she is paid by you.

1. Via a cleaning agency, where the agency employs the cleaner and you pay the agency, in which case they can send a replacement
2. That you employ her as per government guidelines (attached to the post), which is legal
3. You employ her cash in hand, don' follow govt employment guidance, and therfore are using her illegally and she is committing fraud by not declaring her incoe.

Not difficult

@Carrotop Quite. I definitely am not going to put myself in the position of just complaining constantly.

1. The cleaner is self employed. As she should be. Assuming she cleans for several different houses do you think they all have to take her on legally as their employee? That would clearly be ridiculous.

Separately, I think she's now a citizen and I don't have any actual knowledge of benefits fraud. She was complaining about how her landlord reported her for not living alone. When I said, "do you live alone?" she made excuses about the deadbeat partner disappearing all the time. I'm not making it my business to investigate her circumstances.

If she is self employed you dont

You should let her go on the grounds that she’s not a great cleaner. End of.
All the rest is noise that you could do without.

If she's committing benefit fraud then she's both dishonest and a thief and I wouldn't allow someone to work in my home for those reasons alone. Do you pay her cash in hand or via an agency?

My mum got rid of her cleaner because she proudly told her a story about ordering an expensive item online, the delivery driver left it on her doorstep, and she then lied about it not being there when she got home. The shop had to send a second one for free, which she sold. If someone can happily steal outside work, what's stopping them pinching your stuff when they're given free rein of your home?

@Chattie89 I pay her via bank transfer.

Truth be told, the dishonesty does make me uneasy. You're right - she will probably be able to think of a reason why it's ok to take our things.

My partner thinks that perhaps she thinks we are mugs / the nice clients she can just leave in the lurch. I hate that being compassion means that people think they can take advantage of you.

Read the govt guidance

Which government guidance? I can’t find anything saying that a cleaner has to be an employee. I’ve employed a nanny before, who I did have to be employed by me because she worked set hours and I was her only employer. I’ve never been a cleaner, but I have been a tutor and had several different clients I was working for so I was self employed doing that. I kept all my records and did my tax returns every year, as OPs cleaner should be doing. I’ve never seen anything saying anything that someone doing work in this way, with multiple clients, has to be directly employed by each client.

Hadn’t spotted you’d put a link in a post. The link specifically says employing someone who works in your home who is not working through an agency or self employed. The example it gives is an au pair, which is clearly very different. A cleaner who doesn’t work for an agency is obviously going to be self employed. It’s absolutely ridiculous to say that OP is an employer.