This holiday insurance requirement is ludicrous and should be changed

[Sunshineandoranges]

I have just been watching Rip Off Britain. It seems that almost every holiday insurance has a clause which says that in the event of a sudden bereavement meaning you need to cancel your holiday ( the man’s father had died suddenly), you are only covered if you had declared any pre existing conditions the deceased person had. So according to that logic many couples would have to declare not only their own health conditions, but four possibly elderly parents. My adult children don’t even know some of my pre existing health conditions. The presenter said anybody taking out holiday insurance should declare all pre existing conditions of anybody whose death might mean cancellation of holiday,even minor health issues to cover themselves. So, lovely family spend thousands on holiday, granny dies so they have to cancel,no insurance cover unless the company agree to make a goodwill payment. Admiral Insurance refused to pay and wouldn’t change that decision. So, AIBU to think something needs to be changed about this?

Tell that to all the people who've successfully claimed relatively huge amounts of money when things have gone wrong, i.e. house burned down, partner died on or immediately before an expensive holiday etc.

The whole point of insurance is that the cost of "bad" things happening is spread over a huge number of people. Insurance firms employ actuaries whose job it is to evaluate risks and work with statistics and probabilities to "price" insurance according to the known risk factors.

It relies on the policyholder being fully honest and actually reading the insurance documents.

And yes, it's a business, so it is, overall, going to make a profit for the provider - otherwise they wouldn't do it! But it's also a highly competitive market, and the insurance firms also "hedge their bets" by re-insuring with other insurers to spread the potential liabilities even more.

When DH was diagnosed with cancer, we'd already booked two very expensive holidays, and feared the worst re arguments/declined claims with the insurance firms. But both paid out, in full, no questions asked at all - all they wanted was a letter from the doctor confirming the date of the cancer diagnosis. Then we got two huge payment cheques within a couple of weeks. But we always religiously read the T&Cs of the insurance policies and make full disclosure of pre-existing conditions. For DH, we'd declared that he'd had a number of fruitless GP appointments for various symptoms which hadn't led to any diagnosis, which we later realised were clear early signs of his cancer, but because the GPs hadn't twigged what it was, hadn't diagnosed anything, the insurers paid out. I strongly suspect they wouldn't have paid had we not declared those appointments or had the GP treated them seriously enough for more tests/actions, etc. I suppose we were lucky in a way that the GPs missed the obvious signs and that would back up our belief that there was nothing seriously wrong with OH at the time we booked the holidays!

In the old days I worked for a holiday emergency service and did this regularly. At the time the question usually asked to a gp was - were they expected to die whilst Mrs x was on holiday. As long as the answer wasn’t yes it was all ok under insurance.

I've realised that virtually all travel insurance I've ever had, wouldn't have paid out on medical bills if I needed it to. As I never realised the level of detail you needed to provide. It's only through reading all the various stories about them refusing to pay out, that I am now really careful.

Adult DS is abroad now. He's been to the GP once in the last ten years for piles! I told him, put it down on the form, because you need to tell them everything.

I think as I get older, travel insurance will be an issue for me. It is now, as I'm currently under investigation for something which could be nothing or could be really serious. Also have some other health issues. Gone are the days when I could just buy a £20 policy and think I was covered.

Grumpy..can you clarify..the item on ripoff Britain and the responses of one of f the presenters was probably misleading, he seemed to be saying ( which I thought sounded ridiculous) that if I or my husband suddenly ( without prior warning) died that unless our adult children had declared all of our existing and pre existing medical conditions, the insurance wouldn’t cover cancellation. They had looked at the small print of 12 insurance policies and seemed to say they all had some disclaimer.

"An old persons death/illness need not always stop people going on holiday. I know people who have gone away after a family members death, to get back before the funeral."
Which is great, if you aren't the ones who have to attend hospital, because the person doesn't want to die alone, or you need to advocate for them, as their NOK. Then secure their house and arrange the funeral.

There's also a alcohol clause, that is used to not pay out. That includes if the accident/event hasn't been the fault of the insured.

maybe there should be a star rating so that you know that if you get 5 star insurance, you pay more and it covers more. or an easier way to see exactly what is covered.

There is a star rating 😀 I always check here that any insurance I have is five stars:

https://www.defaqto.com/star-ratings/travel-insurance?search=

I did say AFTER death.
Yes every case is different. It is possible to lock a house/turn off utilities very quickly. A lot of funeral arrangements can by done by phone or online.
My friend’s sister went on holiday immediately after their father’s death. I think my friend did a few things in person, like collecting the death certificate, but her sister did just as much from abroad.

We’ve been lucky so far with insurances, dd had an accident on holiday last year. She has multiple different pre ex conditions but the set up of her travel insurance is that as long as you’ve not been told your unfit to travel- it’s covered, this is the world wide travel add on with vitality health insurance,

separately I handled the refund for a family member who had died quite suddenly, although it was a long process we did get the fund back for that holiday that they had booked before a cancer diagnosis and quickly passing away,

All insurance is always in favor of the company

Well, yes, it's a business, they wouldn't do it otherwise!

It's a rip off.
Doing their best to avoid paying is not a good business either.

But surely if you answer the (limited) questions truthfully, then you;ve done your bit?

(Also @justteanbiscuits and @faerietales ) I’ve had literally no questions, other than when I called regarding a health issue, and they were only related to that issue. When I’m saying I’ve had cover for years I mean around 20. I really don’t remember them ever asking anything, it was a perk of having the bank account. Maybe they did somewhere, but I really don’t remember. Saying that, 20 years ago there was bugger all wrong with me, so maybe it didn’t register. As I say I’ve let them know both times I’ve been diagnosed with a condition and the medications I’ve started for those), it just never occurred to me that menopause (and thus its “treatment”)would be classed in the same way.

Interesting point - I wouldn't class the menopause as a medical condition, any more than I would menstruation or puberty? Its simply a phase in life for all women?

Can anyone recommend decent insurance then?

I thought that insurance with my bank account covered us all, but have recently realised I need to upload information about anything no matter how minor and it has now quoted a stupidly high price ( much more then we ever paid separately )so I’ve realised there is no point having the account (the AA only covers roadside assistance also, so now of the perks are very good now that I have looked into it more thoroughly, which I know I should have done before!)

My travel insurance covers death of a close relative (parent or child) just before your travel date and costs of returning home early if they die whilst you’re away.

Menopause is indeed not of itself a ‘medical condition’ but if you have symptoms sufficient that you need medication then it crosses the line. Some forms of HRT could have side effects/interactions. I dutifully note my vagifem prescription even though it’s incredibly unlikely to be any dory of problem whatever but it’s a form of HRT so I do, wouldn’t occur to me not to.

Anyway re the OP - a requirement to declare medical conditions of someone not on the policy is absurd. How on Earth would that work with patient confidentiality? An elderly person may well not be able to give informed consent of disclosure, so I don’t understand how it could legally be a requirement.

The ombudsman is being a lot stricter with the insurance companies now, if they refuse to pay out for things not related to the claim. There’s some guidance from them online somewhere which gives examples of how they would respond to certain cases.

I think specific details of each case is likely to determine how these are handled. And it comes down to how reasonably foreseeable events are. That’s ultimately how insurance companies work through information, to determine what was known, when, by whom & whether there was any prior information or knowledge that makes a difference. Insurance covers unforeseen/unpredicable events. Anything that can reasonably be predicted (even if timings can’t be) isn’t covered.

One clause in the insurance policy T&Cs that gives insurers the right to ask for information & evidence, is the one that compels the insured person to provide the insurance co with any information they ask for. Failure to comply is an automatic breach of the policy T&Cs, and can be the basis for declining coverage/claim payout.

Just one example - someone’s relative either becomes seriously ill in the weeks before a holiday date, or while you’re away on holiday. The level of knowledge family have - close family, it doesn’t apply to wider family so has to be a parent, spouse, child etc. - of the circumstances leading up to that even are material facts relevant to the decision on whether cover applies or not. The ins co sends out a form for the family member’s own GP to complete, that gives them information on the illness, when it would have been 1st diagnosed, dates of consultations & asks Qs about foreseeable deterioration etc. That how ins cos are able to determine whether the illness was known about at the time of booking, or before.

There will be circumstances where family won’t be told. If someone is in that situation, they will still need to prove that, and that’s a hard thing to prove. It’s possible, but it’s going to be difficult. Ins co’s can make the decision to decline cover based on a lack of evidence & the probability of the information on a close family member being known. And it’s about that date of knowledge, or the date the family person knew themselves. If they’re lucky, there could be some comment recorded in the family member’s medical records specifically stating they won’t tell family, or don’t want family being told until necessary.

The investigation is intrusive. It’s upsetting & it’s something that is difficult for people on top of an already difficult situation. But, looking at the policy T&Cs, the booking T&Cs, and the details of the event that’s induced the need to either cancel after the refund period has passed, or incur costs to get home either before someone dies, or in time for the funeral, all this information is what’s needed to allow the ins co to work out if cover applies or not.

Claims being declined are almost always down to people not looking too closely at the T&Cs of the booking, and the travel ins cover, and being unaware of policy limits, exceptions, or information they’ve not realised is important even if they can see/understand the relevance.

Honestly, I haven’t been abroad in years & it dates back to when I 1st was drafted into dealing with travel claims (it’s not my main area of work). The hassle, the stress, the bouncing back & forth between travel companies & ins companies, it’s a nightmare. And even with my very good level of knowledge/understanding of how ins cover works & booking T&Cs work, I’ve not booked a holiday abroad since. Make of that what you will!

One claim that sticks in my mind was an elderly couple who had saved for years for a ‘once in a lifetime’ holiday who were only on the 1st leg of their round the world tour, and had to cancel everything due to the pandemic. Lots were being offered ‘vouchers’ to use to rebook (saving the travel co’s from going bust by having to refund everything that people booked) but this couple were in their late 70s, had waited & weren’t in great health. They’d never get the chance to do it again. They lost nearly £30k because when the travel firm offers a voucher that’s viable, and valid for 12/24 months, that alone was enough to decline the claim.

This comes down to - Adult child has to cancel/return early & incurs a lot of costs to do so, because elderly parent either gets seriously ill or dies. Ins co sends a mandate for their policyholder to give their parent/their parent’s GP to complete to assist the claim. They can decline to do that, for reasons you state, but the claim is automatically declined.

You can keep any/all medical information private & not share it with an ins co, to assist the claim your adult child is making. It’s not something the ins co can enforce (unless the claim is litigated & can be reasonably requested in disclosure). But it makes declining the claim straight forward.

That's what I've just found.

I took out insurance in Jan for our summer holiday. I declared my muscle injurys, my husbands hearing impairment and my daughter's treatment for glue ear - all of which were in the last 2 years.

All the form said was "declare any medical treatment in the last 2 years". So I phoned to declare that I sought treatment for flu in Feb and was prescribed an inhaler, in case that counted as respiritary problems (which apparantly it does).

But they said that when my kid had an accident 4 years ago and suffered internal bleeding, that had to be declared - despite being signed off 100%, all fixed, no medication or treatment, or expected issues. The guy said because the question had asked about "poor circulation, high blood pressure or hypertension" we had to declare yes - even though it was none of those things!

He's now gone away to talk to his medical team about it. I dread to think what that could do to the premium!

My father died while on holiday in France the day before we were due to take our caravan abroad for a three week holiday.

My parents insurance company covered the cost of my mother flying home immediately ( they had travelled by coach) while they sorted out the problems of getting my fathers body returned - took three weeks but we did not have to do anything other than the usual funeral arrangements.

Our holiday insurance covered the full cost of our cancelled holiday, no questions asked.

I have just booked holiday insurance for a week long visit to see my son in the US. I have quite a list of medical conditions, all controlled by medication but obviously need to be declared. I tried booking online but was unhappy with the limited answers I could give to the questions so ended up phoning the insurance company to go through an advisor. Before I phoned I made extensive notes of all my medications, prescribed or OTC, dates of when I started taking them together with dates of all hospital visits as far back as I could. I was then able to explain in more detail some points to the advisor who made the decision on what to input. I even included antihistamines I buy for various allergies and hay fever together with psoriasis which I’ve had since I was a teenager and will never involve treatment while on holiday. I even told him about a d and c I had thirty odd years ago but he was only interested in current conditions or things within the last two years.

At no point was I asked about the health of close relatives or of my sister who I am travelling with. I did make sure though that I was covered for cancellation in the event of the serious illness or death of one of my adult children - I am! I also read the small print during the 14 day cool down period as after my previous experience with my father, I am paranoid about insurance!

I suspect that with some of the stories you read in the press there is some back ground info missing.

Not all women take HRT though. So you’re not declaring menopause, you’re declaring medication.

Anything that requires medication is absolutely something that should be declared.

What most people don’t realise is that the GP appointment you had 5 years ago about something fairly minor might be the thing that develops into a more serious condition. You might not have any indication before you go on holiday that you are about to take ill. But if an earlier consultation was about X, which has the propensity to develop into Y, where Y causes you to become seriously ill, have a ‘turn’ that ends up with you sustaining serious injuries, failing to include the consultation that can be linked back could invalidate the claim. There will be a cut off point to when it’s relevant, but you need to have read & understood where that cut off point is to be confident it’s not relevant, and ok not to declare.

It is a very harsh system. There will undoubtedly be ins cos looking for reasons to escape paying claims. But I’d implore people not to make that easy by not questioning what’s being asked for if you don’t know the relevance - so that you can reasonably answer Qs to the best of your ability/knowledge, and instead of giving the info & being fully transparent, you’ve missed that out & it means you’re whole claim is declined.

I don’t work with travel claims any more - I had my fill & won’t ever do it again. It’s a steep learning curve & at least I know how to try and get the cover I might need. I still
wont go abroad now though. I’ve seen too many claims of shit things that have happened (even though I know it doesn’t happen for everyone) to want to take the chance & end up stranded somewhere facing a massive bill to get home.