To find the whole industry around writing gross

[CuttedPearPie]

Is it me or is there a whole bullshit industry around writing, ££££ courses, retreats, agent sessions, masterclasses, festivals, manuscript polishing...
Do other creative forms have all these satellite grifters trying to make a buck or is it a writing thing?

I don't see why it's any more bullshit than anything else that has associated events... I'd rather go to a writing festival than one of these silent-wellness-sound-bath places 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think maybe a lot of people have a dream of being a writer so are susceptible to these schemes.

There is money to be made from absolutely every hobby. I'm a singer and pay for lessons, choir fees, away events, singing workshops.

I think every hobby is the same.

I think probably yes.

Think of all the 'agents' and advantage takers there are around trainee footballers or new rising pop stars.

They feed off people's dreams.

There’s the same in knitting if you’d believe it - yarn shows, workshops, master classes, webinars, hand dyed yarn for £££

It's a hobby. If you like fitness you might pay monthly gym membership and do big challenges and events that cost a fortune. If you like music you spend money going to gigs or concerts. If someone wants to do anything professionally then there are always going to be reputable courses which can help and other courses which won't. Like others have said, writing is no different to counselling, music, cycling, quilting, massage, etc etc etc

It's not just a writing thing, most things you could class as more creative are filled with people shilling courses and so on to tell you the 'secrets' of how to be successful.

Usually held by people who are not successful enough to live without the money they make from selling their course.

There are a few that might not be a total rip off, but often you can find 100% of the information they are selling for free online.

Generally the only good thing about them is joining a community of like minded people rather than the people selling the thing or anything else they might provide and more often than not you'll find it's a community you will grow out of as it's full of newbies asking the same 20 basic questions time and time again.

You can find the same things for free if you look around.

100% this.

What a weird take on it! Do you think people who can write should give away their knowledge for free??

writers don’t have to buy courses or go to masterclasses. But there are a lot of good classes out there if they want them.

I’m an editor. I’m not going to give away my services!

Some of those things are not like the others, though? A literary festival is for fans; agent sessions and writing retreats can all be helpful – Arvon is great, though I’ve not done its tutored retreat, just the “empty study and food on tap” one but it kickstarted my first 25k words for my second book – vs £££ masterclasses and paid-for polishing. Though there’s space for polishing too if you’re intent on self-publishing: traditionally published authors have structural edits, cope-edits and proofreading, so should self-published authors. You can really tell by the drek on Amazon the ones who think their work doesn’t need an editor…

I’m a photographer and the amount of ‘photographers’ who give up holding a camera to run ‘how to make money from photography’ online courses is laughable. It’s everywhere.

I used to go to a lot of personal growth weekends and fees varied considerably .With the cost of living being an issue not many are taking place and I have noticed the price of training in reiki has been vastly reduced. There are some star speaker such as Tony Robbins still charging massive amounts. Nowadays as a pensioner I read the books that have been written but refuse to go on courses. I look online now and on you tube for example there are many people spouting on about all sorts for free. I have made a few lifetime friends from the courses so I don't attend any now.

Those who can, do, while those who can't, teach!

Person I know who never had much published, even online, now teaches and workshops.

Respectfully, your post is pretty aggressive - why? Every creative industry mines its product in this way, just like in coaching, there are now a zillion online coaches you could take.

Also: most published writers earn fuck all. They need a second income.

I’m a published author - I know.

I think some courses can be a cash cow that take advantage of hopefuls too much, but festivals are a legit outlet to share writing, to network, and for fans to enjoy the world of it. There has to be an industry around writing or a lot of authors would never get any exposure, and it is helpful to meet your peers and feel part of something and get inspired, but I do think it can get exploitative when the only income stream writers have is charging other writers for overpriced courses and consultations that aren’t honest about the work. I’ve been to do guest talks on some writing masters courses and wanted to tell the students just to go and write and read some books on writing rather than wasting £££ on the classes from tutors who’ve never done much themselves. And some contests with high entrance fees are just rackets.

I agree Arvon is good. Think that can be a real treat for someone needing to get away for a week and focus on their writing. But there’s others that cost a lot more and aren’t so good. Arvon has bursaries too, it’s a different level.

Yes and then many books read the same with little originality in format etc and it's a shame.

Also: most published writers earn fuck all. They need a second income.

Exactly! Very few people can earn a living entirely from writing. You need a day job, or you need to find other ways to use your writing skills to earn money.

It's like anything else - there's good and bad and you look around and see what's out there and decide what suits you - a day school, an evening class over several weeks, a weekend or week long residential school, a correspondence course ....

There are some reputable and long running writing schools. With the increase in the col, no residential school is cheap these days. You just have to decide if it's worth it to you.

I’ve always hated that phrase. It’s so rude and disrespectful.

Authors don’t tend to earn much from their books. Why on earth wouldn’t they want to earn more income by teaching?

I see your point. For a while back there I earned a pretty respectable income as a freelancer, had work every month, got some stuff in high street bookshops, not self-published. Went to a couple of writing workshops and realised a) I'd had more success than the people running them; and b) mostly they were social events.

I think you probably have to be picky about which ones are worth it.

I hate that phrase too - being a good teacher requires an absolute, in depth understanding of your subject, plus the ability to convey that sensitively to mixed abilities - it's a superpower and worthy of respect!

Anyway, my writing career started from taking a wee night course - I'd always been 'good at English' but would never have had the confidence to take it forward without that early encouragement. Then graduated to little lit magazines, doing readings, got picked up for a BBC writers course, approached by agents, etc.

And yes, I've been on courses where I'd published more than the tutors, @ProudCat (love your username, btw) - some are better than others, but it's such a lonely job sometimes, I think the networking and company in adversity can be valuable! Just talking to other people who 'get it'... 🙂