To think babies have no need to be introduced to dogs that aren’t in their family

[babiesanddogs]

Or AIBU?

Extended family has said to us that they want their dog to finally meet our pre crawling baby. Not sure what they meant by meet so asked DH what he thought and he said well maybe sniffing them or coming up to them while they are on our knee. I like dogs, I’m not afraid of them and don’t want to give out that message to my child. This particular dog is a bouncy lab and has always seemed very friendly but doesn’t live with children and very rarely sees any. I really don’t think it’s necessary for it to come anywhere near my baby intentionally and actively feel quite anxious about the idea. Even if we went for a walk that might be worse as it might come up to the pram which is at same level? It’s non negotiable that they are bringing the dog

Well if this is a family you do spend time with then obviously the dog and baby are going to meet & share space at some point, if that is going to be the case then yeah a gentle first introduction is a good idea.

If you never see the family and their dog though then I don’t see the point.

We’d maybe ordinarily see the dog 3 times a year? But haven’t since pre baby as the several times we’ve seen these relatives they’ve either met us halfway somewhere or come to us. They’re about an hour away

I think it’s just a roundabout way of saying they want to see your baby? They probably just mean getting the babies together (fur and human), and having a nice catch up at the same time. I don’t think they mean they expected them to be formally introduced and shake hands.

If you do usually see them and the dog is going to be around your baby it’s never a bad idea to let them get acquainted, let the dog have a sniff etc.

No way, they can fuck off with their dog. Wtf is wrong with some people

I’d say it was a reasonable idea. My dog met my friend’s baby at a similar age and was curious but fine. The baby is now a pre schooler and one of my dog’s favourite people (the feeling is mutual). They only see each other every other month

Not necessarily. My brother said he didn’t want his baby to meet my dog. I have seen my brother a handful of times in the last five years and not for the last 5 months. Heartbreaking but true.

You don’t fall into that category then? As I said if the baby & dog are going to be spending time together then an introduction is a good idea.

Dog owner and no kids and agree

I did fall into that category. I saw my DB and SIL twice a month or more until baby came along. They then decided that dog wouldn’t meet their baby, avoided me, time drifted and the relationship was trashed.

I don't see why a pre-crawling baby needs to meet someone's dog. Especially if you're not comfortable with it.

When you say them bringing the dog is non negotiable, do you allow it in your house? Because that, for me, would be non negotiable. I couldn't have dogs traipsing around my house where my baby might crawl.

a gentle first introduction is a good idea

What for? It’s a dog and a baby: they’re not going to remember each other next time.

They want the dog to meet your baby so that it accepts the baby as a new member of the family (or pack.) Dogs - even bouncy Labs - regulate their behaviour around the vulnerable, which includes babies. Sniffing the baby's feet would be enough of an introduction so the dog becomes familiar with the baby's scent. It will remember this scent even if you only see it occasionally. All the children in my extended family were introduced to the various dogs as babies. There were no issues with any of our many family dogs. You could ask the owners to put a lead on the dog during the introduction to put your mind at rest but I think you will be surprised how gentle it will be.

With my dog trainer hat on..

Socialising/habituating dogs to babies/babies to dogs..

The intent should be that neither party finds the other REMOTELY interesting - ie, the dog thinks the baby is a predictor for treats from their human, finds that increasing distance from the baby is highly rewarding, finds that lying down quietly etc is rewarding.

And for toddlers (not so much babies before they get mobile) the same applies (but use different reinforcers, I don't think I'd fill up a toddler with hot dog sausage and squirty cheese)...

The idea of introducing them so that they actively like one another is wildly wrong - you end up with one 'magnetised' to the other and as neither is capable of making sensible, safe decisions, nor can either communicate with the other effectively and one is capable of killing the other... its just not smart.

So so many dog bites stem from people insisting dog and baby get in physical contact, that the baby pet/touch/hug the dog etc (which inevitably leads to grabbing, thumping, kicking, biting, all things babies naturally do with new textures/objects)... and then the dog either reacts.. and is told off, or tries to back away, and is told off and either way learns that the baby is BAD NEWS, unpleasant and worrying to be around and the adult humans are fuck all use either, they're not listening, not helping, not nice.

So no I would not have the dog come over to see the baby specifically - I would ask them to be prepared for baby to be present at whatever family events, and to work to distract their dog and reward their dog for moving away from, looking away from and generally ignoring the baby.

IF the dog sniffs a foot/gets a crafty lick of a hand or foot, the best response is total disinterest/ignoring from the person in charge of the baby... and an active distraction/redirection from the person in charge of the dog (not a telling off, a 'change the subject lets go over here and do something else' response).

But ideally the dog does not get near enough for that to happen, there is no need, there is no benefit where this is a dog who does not live in the childs home (and I'd be avoiding it even if the dog did live in the same home.)

Dogs and kids are safest when well supervised and when each feels like the other is of zero interest.

@WiddlinDiddlin that’s interesting what you say about becoming magnetised to each other as I guess that is what’s happened with ours and tbh we see it as cute 😬
Our dog is well behaved and gentle-never jumps up etc. and they are always supervised- but they definitely do find each other very interesting.
Would you say that was a problem?

Hard agree April. I read that they want to meet up but don't want to leave the dog behind for a few hours or get suitable arrangements. So now "the dog needs to meet the baby". I would have no issues saying no to this. But then I am one of those crazy people who prefers children to pets.

If you're really good at supervising and your dog is well behaved, solid temperament, happy to move out of the way if the kid does something they don't like, etc, it probably won't be.

Its a big problem when there is a lack of supervision, where the dog has behaviour issues, where people think they can read dog body language and actually can't...

So you see things like a dog who is unhappy, but also 'stuck', fear often makes dogs freeze so they can't move away (and people do actually punish dogs for moving away because the kid wants to play with the dog, so they think the dog should tolerate that) - the owner doesn't recognise various signs, like wide eyes, tight mouth, little 'kiss to dismiss' licks to the kid (these are not lovely kisses they mean 'I am appeasing you but please please go away')... and allows or even encourages the kid to do all sorts of things like sit on the dog, stand on the dog, hug the dog around the neck/face to face etc...

Just make sure that your kid understands that other peoples dogs are not the same as their own dog - thats probably one of the biggest risks with kids who have grown up with a nice relationship with a nice, tolerant dog... they assume all dogs are like Fido, and go to do something that Fido would be fine with or even actively enjoy, but another dog might not.