To think some working-class people glorify struggle and reject improvement out of pride?

[ByBusyOpalHare]

It’s easier to say “I’m real” than to admit you’re scared of change.

Yes, that’s a good way of putting it. I think sometimes what’s framed as improvement from the outside can feel like a rejection of culture, identity, or loyalty to a community from the inside. So even if the opportunity is there, it might be seen as selling out or trying to be something you’re not - and that’s where the resistance kicks in.

Every fucking day with these stupid posts

Now I'm starting to get what you mean. I know quite a few extended families whose members are mostly in low or medium-paid jobs, and have a strong loyalty to their area, their relatives and their neighbours. They tend to live for several generations in the same place. I wouldn't call it fear, I'd call it liking and respecting this way of living and not being particularly interested in 'improving' themselves.

It’s based on patterns I’ve noticed in a few different places - not one specific person or family but not pulled from thin air either. I know it won’t resonate with everyone but I do think some people have seen or experienced this kind of mindset, even if they wouldn’t describe it the same way.

Ha, pithy premises should be the name for this type of vaguely goady "discuss" type post.

Well, of course it might be the case in some instances.
However, your suppositions are a tad reductive. The etiology of any individual's circumstances will be multifactorial.

For whom do you imagine pursuing an education or moving is a ‘betrayal of identity or roots’? Who do you imagine attended all those institutes of education that ran evening classes? Who do you imagine has always emigrated for better economic opportunities? Do you imagine the US, for instance, was composed by MC people flooding through Ellis Island? Do you think the Irish people who emigrated to the UK and built its roads and staffed its factories and mines were MC, or regarded emigration as a ‘betrayal of identity’?

What is the improvement though? Financial? Clothing? Ability to wash? Manners?

Makes out tha being middle class is " better" than being working class.

You have used many words but said very little
What sort of changes have you seen people reject because they're too working class to accept?

No, it's not a class issue, this is specific to individual people. Their specific & individual personality/life circumstances dictate a person's willingness to embrace change.

I’m not denying that working-class people have always pursued education, relocated or sought better opportunities - in fact, many have done so with incredible resilience and courage. I was speaking about a more emotional or cultural resistance I’ve seen in some cases, where people feel conflicted about what change says about their loyalty to their background or identity. It’s not a statement about all working-class people - it’s about how pride or fear of being seen as ‘different’ or ‘too good’ can create tension when change is accessible. I know that’s not universal but I’ve seen it enough to recognise the pattern.

Why do working class people need to improve?

OP, you're getting a lot of flak but I can see the point you're trying to make...and I agree. I've seen this too (in very small amounts).

Never understood whether it was due to fear or in-built mentality (drummed in by older generations) of improvements being a bad thing - I imagine there's an element of narrow mindedness in such thought processes!

Almost that, by seeking improvement, it suggests that the base scenario had something wrong with it, and the refusal to accept such a notion!

Would you deny you are not a real person? 🤔

Case in point. OP’s point proved in the first reply. Victim mentality and professional offense taking when the poster knows exactly what OP is saying.

I was going to reply at length but thought:

1. my DH is going to down a coal mine at 4 am so I better spread some dripping on bread for him
2. the DC will be going up and down chimneys quite shortly after
3. I did work (on a loom!) but now I am married I am chained to my small, grimy home. Clearly the kids might clean others’ chimneys well but the little buggers do naff all after fourteen hour days. By the way, my DH is in the pub so I’ve got DM, MIL, and my many sisters and aunties around as we all live on the same street. Which is not named after a certain ceremony where they stick a crown on a fresh monarch!

I don't know what the OP is saying. It sounds as if the point is that being working class is something to be ashamed of, or there's something wrong with it. It's not clear from the post what OP thinks needs improving.

Seems like such a generalisation. I went to a WC school in an old mining town and my cohort at school went on to follow so many different paths, none of which are right or wrong. Not my job to judge why some never left, some moved to other side of the world or others, like me, moved to the city. - our lives are different but none are less real.

I recognise people in the situation you described. The people I’m thinking of are happy in life so what looks like improvement probably wouldn’t be in reality. Being in the lower rungs of middle class, earning too much to get any support but not enough to live beyond the basics isn’t that enticing a prospect.

I think sometimes it's impossible to imagine walking in another person's shoes. Not everyone sees a promotion or further education, for example, as something to strive for. It isn't necessarily because they are afraid of change. I once went to visit a factory where the traditional, very manual jobs were being replaced by machines. The company did need to save money, but they didn't actually want to lose their people. They wanted people to stay, but learn new (more white colar) roles. They couldn't understand why the majority of staff (aged 40+ and had been working in the same role for over 20 years) refused to take advantage of the free training, which would enable them to stay with the company (no need to re-interview or anything like that); when the only alternative was unemployment. I didn't get it myself at the time. Now that I am 40+ and many of my core skills are being made redundant through the 'advance' of technology, I understand a bit more. At my age, with other life struggles, I don't want a job that's complicated or stressful. I hated uni the first time around and have no desire to study again. I accept that this limits my choices. This does not equate to a fear of change.

On the other hand, I have known a man who managed to escape the pull and disapproval of a tight community to study at Uni and get a good job. He left soon after because he was ostracised from his community for being 'false', but wasn't accepted by outsiders either. Sometimes one is between a rock and a hard place and unless you've experienced it, it's easy to assume people refuse to 'improve' themselves for rather simple, one-dimensional reasons.