To think driving standards are abysmal?

[Pihrd]

On the motorway, two lorries in front of me so I begin to overtake. I’m not keen on overtaking in my little car, but have to when stuck behind lorries. Just as I was about to overtake, one lorry suddenly pulls out in front of me, causing me to break hard then wait for ages as it edges pass the other lorry at about 1mph faster. This happens numerous times a month. WHY do lorries wait till you’re just about to overtake then suddenly pull out?

And why do driver tailgate you on the motorway? If I have to break for any reason, we’re both fucked. What is wrong with people?

You can get a license from abroad exchanged for a UK license though without having to take a test.

I don’t necessarily think that the country you’re from dictates how well you drive (like Matt has suggested), it’s the mindset of the individual driver. If you think you’re entitled to do stupid sh*t, you’re going to do just that.

I disagree with you.

I know driving standards are abysmal. I know about 25% of all drivers are unfit for one reason or another to have a licence.

Though LGV licence holders are by no means the worst.

Struggled to pull out? I was out in the outside lane when the lorry pulled in front of me. Im honestly not sure how I can say this more clearly.

I absolutely hate lorries doing this. They end up just driving next to eachother is some kind of pissing contest. Who can go 1mph more! Really pisses me off

The driving test should be made much harder, bad driving should be punished much more severely with longer bans and permanent bans for the worst offenders. And foreign driving licences should not be able to be exchanged for UK licenses at all.

The tailing thing really gets me, sometimes they flash you too! If you speed up they do, then you pull over, let them past and they just do the same right in front of you and SLOW DOWN! Wtf? Fine, i'll indicate right, overtake and go back to 70 then?!

I thought this today, signs all saying 50 and clearly that cameras were in action at this limit. Many drivers sailing past at 60 braking suddenly nearly causing pileups when they see the actual yellow camera, after merrily ignoring all of the bright LED signs and tailgating.

Agree with all that. Add in that the car is impounded and sold for those driving without a valid UK licence, insurance, MOT, or road tax. Lifetime bans for those driving without a valid UK licence. We need some strong deterrents, not the "Light touch" we currently have where there's basically no real "punishment" unless you actually kill someone. Also properly enforce the top-up points for driving bans and scrap the ludicrous situation where people with very high numbers of points are allowed to carry on driving for "hardship" or their "job" or whatever other excuse - the totting up system should stand on it's own, no excuses, no appeals - if you speed enough times, you get banned - no if's no but's, however hard it hits you.

In the Stobart documentary series a few years ago, they actually had a couple of drivers deliberately playing that game, side by side for miles, overtaking each other, and then, inevitably, they both stopped at the same service station for their break, so they'd caused untold danger and aggravation to hundreds of vehicles behind them for no reason at all, other than to be dicks on camera!

I did read.

If you go back and read YOUR original post, you mentioned that you get tailgated on the motorway.

If this is the case, are you driving too slow for the traffic and speed?

As the fellow driver of a little car with a small engine, I have learned to read the road a long way ahead - much further than a ‘normal’ overtaking manoeuvre. Seeing 2 lorries up ahead that I was closing up towards would have seen me immediately looking for a gap in the outer lane to move out - way, way ahead but in anticipation. It also means that even with my car’s lack of power, I can accelerate smoothly to the speed of the outer lane, move past the lorries in that lane, then move back in.

I hate tailgaters but if there is no safe way to avoid them by moving over, and as long as I am driving appropriately for the road (so 70+ on a motorway) I ignore them. I know I drive cautiously under certain circumstances - unlit unfamiliar small rural roads at night - and in those cases I will look for a safe place to pull over to allow following cars to overtake, as tractors and other agricultural vehicles often do.

I wonder, from your posts, whether you stayed in the inside lane too long, thinking of this just as an ‘overtaking’ manoeuvre, rather than changing lanes well
in advance because you observed as soon as as you saw the lorries in the distance that you were travelling at a faster speed than them and so needed to join the outer lane for a period.

COVID lockdowns didn't help standard slipped. After that. When the Holyhead port was damaged and closed. No wagons. Fewer accidents it was great.

You can get a license from abroad exchanged for a UK license though without having to take a test

That isn’t true in every case. It depends on which country the licence was issued.

I have colleagues from India and the US, for example. They had to pass a test to get their UK licences.

You didn’t read. I didn’t say tailgated by lorries.

If you haven’t been tailgated on the motorway, you either don’t drive or you’re one of the dangerous drivers not leaving enough room and flashing their lights.

The response to anyone driving slowly, at any time, is never, ever to tailgate.

But your mindset is reflective of what seems to becoming more and more common.

Okay, and if you are about to draw even with the back lorry, and he pulls out in front of you, what do your do?

70 is appropriate for a motorway. 70+ isn’t. This is part of the problem.

If you changed lane because you simply seen a lorry in the distance you’d never be out of the outside lane.

I think you should not be riding a moped or bike on a provisional license whilst doing business stuff such as food couriers.

I say 95% of the food couriers on mopeds have L plates. They are a menace. Has anyone died from being hit by these riders? Doubt they have any bike insurance, let alone business use?

They drive down one way streets the wrong way, drive over large roundabouts, ride down alleyways etc

You can do up to 77 on a motorway and not need to worry about being fined. Though obviously if you see a police car you go down to 70. For overtaking it's fine to go above 70 to overtake and then go back to lefthand lane to be out of people's way who are moving faster.

I drive hundreds of miles every week up and down the country on the motorway. 20 years in this job.

No, I do not tailgate. I do not flash my lights. Does this even happen as I have never had this happen to me?

What I do see, very regularly is:
Drivers overtaking at only a couple of miles faster (including lorries, as you have mentioned). Slow moving vehicles are dangerous as it causes drivers to brake, slam on.
Drivers sticking in the middle lane with nothing either side causing others to make unnecessary lane changes.
Indicating to pull out to overtake someone at the last moment, instead of reading the road and pulling out and overtaking when it's safe and early.
Tailgating.

You said tailgating. I asked the question whether you were driving too slow. Whether it's a car or another vehicle, it's dangerous. However, some instances of tailgating are because the driver infront is driving too slow and is causing a danger to cars coming up from behind. You have assumed I am getting at you and have been very defensive which makes me assume that you could be in the wrong but you wouldn't admit it anyway. Also, the fact that you're getting flashed from behind on a motorway does make me think you're not getting the speeds up to overtake safely.

So what's the point.

And sometimes, yes, that’s exactly what happens, and as long as I am travelling at the prevailing speed of the traffic in the outer lane, is both appropriate and allowed. The section of the A14 between the M1 and the A1, for example, frequently has 1 lane of lorries, consistently travelling below 60mph. The outer lane is of cars and vans doing a consistent 70 or thereabouts.

I COULD treat each lorry as an individual overtaking manoeuvre- drive up behind it, close to the blind spot, indicate out into the outer lane, accelerate as fast as my little car will manage to try to match the outer lane speed, pop out -again into blind spot, scoot round the lorry and pop back in in front of its nose, then repeat the same procedure for every lorry.

However, if I match my speed to the prevailing flow of outer lane traffic so as not to cause an obstruction, and move in safely and promptly if a vehicle is coming up behind me at much greater speed, then maintaining speed and position in the outer lane bypassing a slower moving lane of lorries is entirely appropriate.

I drive this road often too and yes, a lot of the time it’s just wall to wall lorries in the left lane going at 55-60 and cars in the right hand lane. It’s a twisty two-lane fast road and not always that safe, with some difficult entrances and exits, so if all the cars were constantly popping in and out of the lorries in the left lane it would cause mayhem. But that is exactly where you often see lorries playing the first-one-then-the-other overtaking game that OP describes — drives me mad on that road!

@Staringatthestars yes the tailgating and lights flashing does happen. You could even be going at 80 on the A14, and some berk in an Audi will still start hovering right behind your bumper flashing his lights at you to make you move over — often when he can see there’s no safe gap to do so, so what’s the point? And it is always men.

It is entirely possible that the lorry made an error and did not see you - they may not have checked their mirrors or have had a lapse of attention.

This is unpleasant and frightening, and like you I would have had to brake sharply.

As a relatively vulnerable driver - small car, low engine power so cannot accelerate out of a situation - I have learned to drive defensively to maximise the chances of being seen: to shift lanes in extra-good time, to match speed to traffic and overtake quickly even if technically slightly above speed limit, to observe much further ahead and behind than I might think necessary, to be patient and wary, to always scenario plan for the worst of other drivers, to be thick-skinned.

Near-accidents are always unsettling, though, and I am really sorry that you found yourself in a scary situation.

Er, you what now? It’s okay to break the law but obviously stop if the police see you? 70 is the limit.

Not everyone lives near a motorway.