To not mum's estate yet?

[mimi1962]

I'm getting pressure from a couple of siblings at different levels to share mum's estate. One is requesting vesiferously, one is asking reasonably.

Mum's house was in a trust for many decades and she had a little in savings. I'm one of the executors and one of the trustees. I've never done this before and never want to again.

I have found out that mum had too much in pension credit for around 6 years as she was too ill to spend the money, too confused with dementia whilst fiercely fighting to keep independent. She didn't understand but resisted help managing her bank account. No ones fault.

I have reported this to the dwp voluntarily and have a rough idea of the potential repayment. Until they tell us I have no real idea but over 6 years is a long time.

One sibling is putting real pressure on now to share most of the estate and hold back the best guess amount we will have to repay. The house sold a few weeks ago.

If I share it, and get it wrong, myself and the other trustee\executor will be personally liable for the debt. That can't happen. It has to come from The estate which means I have to get it right. I don't know how long we will wait for a decision.

I am insisting we wait for the DWP to tell us what we owe, then share whats left when we have paid them. One sibling has demanded most is shared now, guess whatever debt will be and hold that guessed amount back. I can't risk being wrong and liable.

Just for some background, the other trustee\executor agrees with me. We also did all of mum's care for well over 20 years, I arranged the funeral, took on board selling the house. All done in 6 months. Legal advice was non committal on the term of the trust and have had 2 solicitors interpret it differently.

I want to wait for the DWPs assessment. My sibling thinks I'm being unreasonable. My question is do you agree? Am I being unreasonable?

I thought legally all bills have to be paid until the estate can be divided

Sorry about the title, should have said not to share mum's estate yet. Apologies.

yes this. You can't do what you sister wants anyway. Debts have to be paid first.

Sorry for your loss.

I think people are often surprised by how long these things take. Your rationale sounds quite reasonable.

Do you have any indication of how long the DWP will take? Perhaps giving a time period to the relatives might get them off your back ie understanding it’s happening, but just will take a few more weeks.

You have to wait til all debts and bills are discharged before settling

No. Debts must be taken care of first.

Thats what we were told by the solicitors - (who managed to drag out the process for many months even though there were no debts).

Nothing needs to be shared between beneficiaries until the final set of accounts is prepared. This is after all expenses are known and accounted for.

Point the demander in the direction of a solicitors, wish them luck in attempting to get a lawyer to support their “demand”.

Sibling needs to wind their neck in - you need a clear picture of debts first which need to be discharged before the estate is settled. Tell her if that doesn’t and the debts are higher than what rests in the estate then she could be liable for fulfilling those debts - will that make her back off for a bit?!

I think this depends entirely upon the value of the estate and how long it’s taken. If it’s possible to do a conservative guess I would distribute some of it now if it’s been over a year. Our solicitor did an interim payment.

You are right.

Their argument is that the house was in a trust, but the trustees have been to two.solicitors and this may or may not be a part of the estate. Until I know I have to treat it as if it is and nothing gets shared until all debts are paid.

I was so upset tonight, ive given every spare moment whilst deep in grief, to the funeral, the house sale, but they don't want to wait. They want me to guess at the debt, and keep that in reserve.

If I guess wrong I become personally liable if I've shared the estate in error..

https://qlaw.co.uk/probate/probate-what-is-an-interim-distribution/. This is what I was thinking about

The house sold 3 weeks ago, mum passed 6 months ago. I've sent them the recorded delivery proof of the letter to the DWP, the final statement from the sale. Explained the position throughout.

It's a brother, guess I am taken aback by the nastiness of the way it was demanded as if I had to comply! Sorry no.

6 months is nothing when dealing with an estate, they will have to wait until it's all sorted

Thanks Phase2, we haven't needed probate because of the house being in a trust. The bank released the money without it due to the low value.

it's speeded things up but as executors we have less protection so it is a blessing and a curse. I'll have a good look though. ,

I thought they should be more grateful to be honest, how wrong was I? Still we never were The Waltons.

Oh I agree six months is nothing, there’s a phrase like the executor’s year I think, indicates it takes a long time. You poor thing, I’d just hold fast for now.

use the solicitor as the bad guy here. Just tell your siblings that you have spoken to the solicitor and they have told you all bills must be cleared first and that your hands are tied. Keep reiterating that line, don’t give any other reason.

I’ve been the executor a few times and have never had any pressure, but a close friend and a SIL both had huge pressure from sibling beneficiaries to pay out before the accounts were finalised. The friend had to go to court in the end after an unpleasant threatening episode and the judge was very helpful in providing a restraining order, saying it was an all too common occurrence in families that death, grief and inheritance brought out all kinds of long buried resentments and rivalries people and behaved in a way that they normally wouldn’t.

In both these cases, the impatient beneficiaries were wealthy anyway and the inheritance would not have made an appreciable difference to their lives- it was so not about the money, but about lack of control.

You are right that they should be more grateful OP, but they probably won't.
Best ignore them or tell them to be patient. Or could you work out the absolutely maximum the debt could be, double it, and make a disbursement on that basis? You could give them the rest when the figures are finalised.

I’m so sorry for your loss and the strain your siblings are putting you through.

Would there be any adjustments to be done to any Council Tax Support or was your Mum exempt? (as Council Tax Support is based on the Pension Credit award)

Thanks all, this is another possibility re council tax. We just don't know yet.

One sibling is putting the pressure on me to share most now as this will take time. He doesn't want to wait making it personal.

My position is until we know we have to wait. Ive spoken to another brother and he's now fine, understands my position and is now supportive.

Other brother not so.

The house being in trust since the 1990s complicates things as I can't get a definitive answer from 2 solicitors that it is safe or excluded from debt so we will have to wait.

If I get it wrong the two trustees can become personally liable. A risk I'm not willing to take, fortunately neither is the other trustee, a sister, so I'm not alone thinking waiting is right which helps.

Guess I wasn't prepared for becoming the target for nastiness when I have arranged everything, funeral, house sale in just 6 months.

Poor mum only passed in October last year bless her. She just didn't understand pension credit etc in her 90s.

If I pass to a solicitor which is tempting there will be nothing left to argue over, it will go in fees!!

She has dementia so may have been exempt anyway under severe mental impairment, we are waiting to hear from DWP get their answer and tackle that one if needed.

Hold your ground OP, you are absolutely right to both legally and morally. Your brother is just a greedy nasty thundercunt.

I only have a basic understanding of how wills are dealt with, but I think you are correct. Is this brother only pressuring you, or also your sister? Is there anyone (the reasonable brother, another relative?) who could speak to unreasonable brother firmly to tell him to back off? I can’t imagine it will take too long to hear back. You aren’t in a position to guess and make an interim payment (unless there are millions and you were to give them a couple of hundred pounds or something!). Sorry you’re having to deal with this.

Text the nasty brother that you will be doing everything by the book and that you will not be engaging with him any further on the matter.

Then block him.
6 months is nothing 15-18 months is very normal in a cut and dried case where even was completely in order.

Sorry for your loss but in your position I would refuse to engage further.

Some years ago my friend was getting grief from a bossy sister and her mother wasn't yet cold.
She took the decision in her grief, to hand the entire handling of probate over to the solicitor to execute at considerable expense and told all siblings that it was Sarah's hassling of her was the reason.
When the final bill came in they all were clearly aware of what Sarah had cost them, 5% of the estate.