To tell you how schools changed within 15-10 years

[HerNeighbourTotoro]

I have been a teacher (on off, contracts and lots of supply) for almost 15 years now with some other work in between. If you have a child going through the system now and no older kids, you would not know how different things were even a few years ago.
15 years ago I did my PGCE in a fantastic school, I sadly missed out on the job they had at the end of that year and moved to a different location.

The staffroom was vibrant, lots of people always working, talking, exchanging ideas, they had a core team of teachers who were in charge of teaching and learning and each specialised in a different area, and were happy to pop in and observe or be observed. So many things were just amazing. They were also able to offer both more academic and vocational subjets.The department I worked in was wonderfuly resourced and they had a budget to buy into a few subscriptions offering students additional learning opportunities, they did trips, clubs, there were cross curricular days where departments collaborated to do projects. A dream place to work.

Over the years I worked in a few different schools and each year I have been noticing a change for worse, especially if I had a break from teaching/supply.

As it happens, last year we moved back closer to town with my PGCE school and an opportunity to do supply came up. No one I remember works there anymore, which was a shame, but what was really striking to me is how many things got lost in between. The staff rotation is however huge, and some departments have failed to recruit teachers for the vacancies and have either long term or daily supply to cover for the shortage (bear in mind when I applied, there were 50 applications for the job I ended up not getting and it was a norm to have over 30 applications in most schools in the area, and a lot more for shortage subject).

My subject lost a technician who was vital and it massively increased the workload. The department is half the size (as are many others). The classes are much bigger and some have 33-34 students. They run far fewer trips because a) the cost for the school to book suply is too big b) the workload increased so much that there is little time to organise these c) they lost office staff who used to help with the admin and now the team is smaller and can't help anymore.

The Language department used to have 3 language assistants (one for each language hey offered)- they now only offer one language and have no language assistants. The amount of subjects the school offers is much smaller and there apparently have been talks of closing down their 6th form.

All of the TAs are now mostly inexperienced agency staff that come and go and the SEN team is probably half of what it used to be as well. I have not seen a TA in any of my classes so far despite quite a few students desperately needing support.
The staffroom looks like a graveyard. Most people spend their lunches in their classrooms, eating as they prepare/mark. Forget about things like replacing damaged textbooks or other resources, so many people have to bring in their own pens and glues they buy in bulk because there is no budget.

I won't even mention the behaviour, 'teaching' a class of 30 or 30+ instead of 26 feels more like controlling chaos. There used to be a behaviour team supporting teachers, but now this is also gone because the school could not afford keeping 3-4 support staff on the team.

I genuinely feel sorry for children who are getting such different experience compared to before, with a small choice of subjects, supervised by supply teachers (I won't say taught) in the absence of teachers the school didn't manage to recruit, with few resources and few extracurricural opportunities.

For the record, the school is in a relatively well of area, I can tell you I have seen much worse elsewhere. But it is such a shame to see what was once a thriving school community in such a sorry state. All as the government is saying how supposedly schools are getting so much more money than at any given point in the past.

And kids know this. They know that information is at their fingertips. They know that the skills they’re going to need in the world of work are changing

No no no, kids still need to learn stuff! There's an awful lot of shite at their fingertips...

Totally missing the point…

You're making the same point that has been made infinite times by multiple schoolchildren 'why should I learn Shakespeare when I'm never going to use it in real life?'

Knowledge isn't just valuable for its utilitarian value. We are not simply training people to do jobs. We are educating them because being educated is a good thing. Knowing things is good, even in the Information Age. In fact probably more importantly in the Information Age.

School doesn't 'prioritise' rote learning at all. Sometimes it needs to use it MORE. Particularly for things like times tables, number bonds, sight words, letter recognition and so on.

Interesting that you say I’m making the same point as many school children. Maybe they are trying to tell you what I’m also trying to tell you. That information is at our fingertips whether you like it or not and there no longer is a need to memorise lots of information. Spending all your time learning the old fashioned way also means there is no time to devote to higher order skills such as critical thinking, problem solving, data analysis, application of knowledge and actually learning the skills to analyse the data that is online. As you pointed out that is a crucial skill for navigating the online world and one which kids don’t have.

Also we’re educating kids on what WE deem to be of value and importance. We are dictating to them what they should learn. There’s nothing wrong with Shakespeare if this is of interest but force feeding it removes kids own internal purpose and their own natural passions. It robs them of the right to follow their own interests and passion.

Yes basic numeracy and literacy is important as well as some basic scientific facts and say historical facts etc but we need to reimagine education for the world we live in now.

🤦‍♀️

Maybe they are trying to tell you what I’m also trying to tell you

They are saying that Shakespeare is difficult and not as entertaining as watching endless TikTok videos, therefore not worth their time.

Is that what you are also trying to tell me?

It's interesting that you want them to spend time learning to apply knowledge that they don't have because you don't value learning stuff and critically thinking about things they don't know anything about.

And you say you are an ex teacher but you don't see the value of exposing kids to Shakespeare?

Do you think that’s what I’m saying? Kick out Shakespeare as it’s not as entertaining?

You brought Shakespeare into this discussion. My point was and is that memorisation of large amounts of information for a test paper is outdated and irrelevant. Some of what is taught today is valuable and useful. I’m not saying kick out the whole lot. But overall it’s outdated and due to technological advances has lost its relevance.

As a teacher, do you think the curriculum is right for the 21st century and the way the world has changed? For today’s kids?

What do you mean? Nobody in living memory could leave school in year 7. The school leaving age hasn't been 11/12 since 1899! Or are you talking about another country?

And yes my experience as a primary teacher has formed my opinion on all this. SO much of what they learn at primary school is absolutely useless and mind numbing.

My experience as a home educator has also formed my opinion on this. When you step back from the system we were all brought up in, you see how ineffective it really is. When you see how many kids are coming out of school you have to wonder what it is that is causing this situation.

You don't get it. Learning Shakespeare because you have to has little meaning. Being exposed to every opportunity means that some children will choose to explore shakes they will learn be ause they are self motivated. The individual approach to learning means we can explore our interests in a natural way. We learn far more when it interests us and when we drive the learning from an internal goal.
Being taught history in general terms a is great. An overview of key historical events. Then allowing children to explore aspects of history that they are interested in. Who decides that WW2 should be learnt at x age over the endless history someone may wish to explore.

In learning about one area of history they are using literacy to read, the our developing research skills, maths skills, critical thinking skills. This is much more valuable than memorizing set history facts that will be in an exam at 16
And for a child not interested in history (at age y) pushing them to have to learn it is likely to result in behaviour issues or put child of learning full stop. But by allowing that child to explore there own interests and by giving them seeds of ideas that can grow and they may circle right back to history. A child who loves gaming may be inspired to research the history of gaming - this may leed to interest into what was also different for children living in the time of Atari consoles or it may spark interest in building their own game

Too many children are left with a belief that they are not good enough because they can't pass a specific skill set at a set age, they are given the idea that only academic skills matter when we know society needs a mixture of skill, knowledge and ability. Imagine a world when everyone is amazing at maths but no one can do anything else.

We definitely had a TA in my 90s primary school. The one in our class, who stayed with us from reception through to year 3, mostly worked with a boy who had learning difficulties and occasional difficulty with behaviour (I don't remember being afraid of him but he would get easily upset) but she was also available to help with other things. I remember because her name was Mrs. Crisp and she never became impatient with children asking her what flavour crisp she was today

@ByBoldOP

So how are you suggesting this approach works in a normal class of 30+?

The whole system needs an overhaul as it does not work.
A class of 30 and 1 over stressed teacher isn't working. The curriculum isn't working.

Education needs to be overhauled and made for for purpose so that it does work.

There were never any fines and parents weren’t held accountable.
my partner left in year 7, never to return, with no repercussions on his parents.
My colleagues were the same.
They picked up a trade with a friend of the family.

Personalised curriculums clearly are ideal but will never work in a classroom of 30 with only one teacher trying their damnedest to meet everyone’s needs. We currently can’t afford pencils or paper in my class of 34 so what you describe is as far away from reality as possible.

But what we have now is too many children not receiving an education, too many children being failed. Too many children out of education because schools/ LA can't meet needs.

Every child is entitled to an education. It is not right that too many children are being denied that human right.

There has to be a move to change from what we have currently (a failing system) to something that will work for all. Personalized curriculum may be unworkable but so is the current system

@ByBoldOP
The current system doesn’t work. I agree with you. That’s the point I was trying to make. Talking about personalised curriculums when we can’t afford pencils in massive classes shows how far away from being achieved it is.

I’m trying to work out what your reasons are for posting this OP. We dont have a choice about educating our children and only a very small percentage will ever home school. We all only ever know the school systems we go through so we don’t have a comparison to go by. We all just live within the school systems of our own time(including our own education).

Aside from making anxious parents even more anxious what do you want to achieve with this post?

Gove’s curriculum changes have got a lot to answer for. I struggle to get my son to go to school because he finds it so boring

I know people like this too.

Ex boss left at 14 to start nursing training.
DF barely attended secondary school and failed all exams despite being highly intelligent and self-educated later in life. Worked in the family business, raced dogs and dicked around, before taking on first casual labouring work upon leaving school then working for a national company in his 20s for the rest of his career.
Friend did 3 weeks of secondary school then refused to go back. 2yrs later ended up in a special school where almost zero actual school work was done but was interested in mechanical things and received informal training from the maintenance guys.
Even among my peers lots bunked off school regularly or pulled a sicky and nothing ever came of it. No punishment and parents didn't even know it happened.
Some left before GCSEs if they'd got their NI number through and knew they had little hope of passing the exams, getting jobs in shops or warehouses.

Now all those unsuited to it are forced to stay in school, to everyone's detriment including their own.

The information may be at our fingertips but the ability to understand it and do something with it is not (plus the information isn't always often trustworthy or reliable).

The Gove reforms certainly took aspects of the curriculum in a different direction (and the primary curriculum needs reform) but we don't have a rote learning curriculum in secondary in the large part. Yes there's lots of content in e.g. English lit, History, Science etc but the exam marks are for what you DO with it: apply it, analyse it, quote it to support an argument etc.

@TiredalwaystiredI can think of a few things?
Look closely at the content of what your children are learning and ask questions; supplement where needed (BBC Bitesize is great)
Support teaching staff where there is conflict (don't automatically take your child's side without investigating)
Become a school governor
Write to your MP
Volunteer with school age children (Guides, Scouts, church groups, DofE, reading schemes, mentoring schemes, sports clubs etc etc).
Share experiences on here (I've learnt so much about the SEN system from helpful Mumsnetters and was also given a helping hand years ago when I was training as a teacher).

I mean training as a teacher would perhaps be an extreme response (and take too long to make any material changes for one's own children) but the possibility is there?

The lack of unskilled jobs sits behind a lot of the school-as-containment issues, doesn't it?

Were you teaching at a private school? Or some magical school?

I was at school 15 years ago and we had class sizes of 30+, no textbooks, definitely no language assistants, no TAs in any of my classes. Very few trips and definitely no musical instruments! I had multiple teachers off with stress, for 2 of my GCSEs I just had a string of supply teachers. Also lots of social media bullying, Mass sending of nudes round the school etc. Sexting, selling drugs on premises, fighting etc all happened. No behaviour assistants or any real policies for bad behaviour. And my school was a pretty middle class tame school

I'm sure education has changed massively in the last 15 years, and many of those changes have not been for the better but your description of schooling 15yrs ago sounds like a fantasy!

Agree agree agree.

Ive been one of the cover supervisors you describe. So I’ve been a fly on the wall on lots of secondary schools. Absolutely dire. Wether they are rated outstanding or needs improvement - they are all dire. No one believes me when I tell them. If it’s like this when my kids are high school age, then I will home school them. No way would I send them into that environment everyday