NT people don’t exist

[Montea]

I don’t think that neurotypical people exist. I think we are all on the spectrum somewhere

Before being so rude and patronising maybe you need to check as to who I was replying to.

You may find it funny when your child tries to take their life I don’t.Having seen my child suffer as much as I have I think I can despair as much as I like.

Slow hand clap MN, what a great supportive thread for parents of ND children. We know where to come.

Your comment about finding potential suicidal ideation in my child funny is unnecessarily unpleasant, but I’ll let it go because it sounds like you’re in a particularly dark spot at the moment.

I truly am sorry you’re struggling with your child. The resources just aren’t there and what little there is ends up spread too thinly. Take care of yourself.

Well it depends really. If you subscribe to NT and ND categorisation, if there is any of the above behaviour in the NT category you couldn't say that's definitively part of being ND, could you? In which case, it would be seen as 'normal' insofar as it's not exclusively happening due to ND. And as far as I know you can be suicidal, depressed and have poor focus without having a ND diagnosis.

I'd also say we don't need those categories in order to prevent these effects. If we recognised that individuals have different strengths and weaknesses and accepted and nurtured that it would probably help.

In some ways categorising as NT/ND could produce these reactions. In my experiences it's all about 'correcting' ND behaviours and traits to fit into an NT world (as proscribed by those who categorise as such) I don't think that actually represents the reality of human beings very well. The focus is negative and pejorative and I'd prefer education, and society at large, to be more accepting of difference. I think that would help in terms of enabling individuals able to self-actualise.

We are !!!!

It was clear to me, because she substituted "neurotypical" for "autistic" in a sentence that is typical of what people say about autistic people.

But then, I am autistic so the detail leapt out at me...

Wonder if it's actually an example of something that seems so straightforward and obvious but neurotypical people don't get? Hmm.

FWIW the person who (apparently) coined the term "neurodiverse" meant it to include everyone. As in, we all all diverse. Which I think is the sort of thinking the OP is getting at - that we should recognise and accept all the diversity.

The term has come to mean "people with autism/adhd/dyslexia/etc".

Would link an article but too wiped to search for it.

Collectively and to the extent of having a massively adverse impact on life of course they’re not normal and only a tiny fraction of the population does have such a collection of traits that have such an adverse impact on life. You could pick apart any condition or disease if you choose and infer it’s a label and normal going by such a ridiculous theory.

Well the meds have transformed his ability to go to school (at all) and focus. His attendance went from 73% to 100% in one week. If it's not a real thing how are meds helping? If it doesn't have a label or name how can they classify it for treatment.

I had to bite my tongue last week amongst a group of fellow teachers who trotted out the "we're all on the spectrum" . It wasn't the appropriate forum to get into it with her but it massively winds me up because it minimises the issues people have. When I was struggling to achieve a diagnosis for DS people said it thinking they were being kind, that's there nothing really wrong but they just didn't see all the behind the scenes issues. I teach teens. The vast majority are obviously NT, with a range of personalities and traits ranging from delightful to absolute twats. Those on the spectrum, with or without a diagnosis are immediately obvious, including my son but it still takes literally years to get anywhere through the official channels because of views like the OP who just want people to cope and be accepted but it's not just about that. DS reports feeling immediately calmer, less hectic and over emotional in his response to challenge. It has allowed him to manage the school environment (albeit a small, quiet v pastorally focused private one that I am in debt to keep him at). The ND kids there are there for the same reasons.
If the op is saying it's over diagnosed because people use ND to excuse poor behaviour, that would be one discussion with some possible merit, but to argue it's not really a thing and we're all just different is naive and unhelpful.

The NHS provides therapies too for ADHD. Both have enabled my dc to focus longer than 15 mins and have helped with other debilitating symptoms.

I don't really believe there is such a thing as neurotypical but that isn't the same as everyone being on the autistic spectrum.

That's great! It must be such a relief seeing him feeling better and able to focus more.

I just don't see why we can't support kids and adults with the difficulties they experience without the need for diagnoses. If a kid has trouble concentrating, is impulsive or hyperactive, a psychologist can support them by offering strategies to manage. No need to give them a label. If the kid or their parents want meds, i don't see why a doc couldn't prescribe something to help without the need for a diagnosis. It's a shame parents and kids have to wait years for a diagnosis when people could help with the symptoms straight away, and there isn't a need to diagnose everyone except.pwrhaps to keep the profession of psychiatry alive.

We all have different traits, different 'symptoms' (to use medical language) etc.. based on our different biologies and different life experiences. I get anxious due to trauma I experienced as a kid. I've chosen not to go down the meds route and just accept I am someone that gets anxious sometimes and I'm ok with it. But if I did want meds I would hate to think I'd have to be diagnosed with a medical condition called 'anxiety' in order to get them (I wouldn't because gps prescribed anxiety meds like smarties).

But they wouldn't have had you not had a diagnosis for them. Regardless of it's it's meds or therapy, it's recognising that there is a "thing" to be treated. The spiky profile someone posted upthread is v helpful. If someone is low scoring in all or most areas they may be somewhat limited but may not present with the issues that AuADHD does. It's the imbalance between traits that causes the issues, as I understand it.

I also think some kids are just less suited to having to sit in school environments.

There is a famous ballerina who told the story of her mother taking her to a psychiatrist b cause she couldn't focus on school. He said take her out of school and get her to do something more active. She went to a ballet school and the rest is history. She could have been prescribed meds to fit into the existing education system, but luckily had another option

Our schools are not right for every child. That shouldn't mean we have to diagnose them and give them tablets. Our education system would be better being modified rather than trying to modify the kids. IMO

https://www.lifdb.com/2025/01/31/think-you-have-adhd-you-need-to-read-gillian-lynnes-story/

My children absolutely needed their diagnosis. One has 5 NHS diagnosed conditions. ADHD and autism are no different than the other conditions. They wanted answers and knowing why they have struggled so much over the years is helping massively. Both diagnosis have helped with medication prescriptions, treatment adjustments, informing professionals, reasonable adjustments etc.

I completely agree that changes to the state system would benefit many kids hugely. However, would you deny someone headache tablets, an ice pack for a sprain, a cast for a broken limb? ADHD meds don't build up in the system..DS can decide not to take them on non school days if he wants to. He's got ten weeks off after his exams..if he wanted to stop then he could. If he ends up as an adult doing a job that he can do without them, he may, though I doubt it. It's not just about fitting in or coping, it's having less chaos in his thoughts, more calm. The meds are well tested and safe..I don't really get why you object to them.

Well, my ND child sees things that me and my NT child would not notice so perhaps! And that is interesting ie. the person who coined the term. However, I think it's widely accepted at this time that it is the autism umbrella for want of a better way to express it (I am aware ND is not just autism).

Not at the person I am quoting, but in general on this thread, I think the distinction is important for people who are ND. Like I said, we absolutely do all have strengths and weaknesses but that doesn't make all of us ND, not in the way the term is used now. I was an anxious child, I didn't enjoy school - sure the system is not set up well for everyone but I could navigate it even if I didn't enjoy it. Even if I didn't find it easy.

That is not going to be the case for my ND child. He would not navigate the school system at all, could not in fact.

I don't object to them and am happy.your DS finds them helpful.

I do think there are other ways people could cope if the education system was better, but I'm not against meds completely. Definitely not. Some people find them helpful. I am against the need for diagnosis to get support, including meds

Indeed. It's a shame people.need a diagnosis in order to receive support, adjustments etc.. I don't think it should be like this.

I think it should. Going through life not understanding their struggles or having their diagnosis was killing them.

Are you suggesting physical disability diagnosis should be normalised and dismissed too.

Then you are hugely ignorant diagnoses are needed , particularly with meds. it’s crucial.My dc take several meds.

You can get adjustments for exams without diagnosis. Schools do their own testing and put in for extra time etc based on need but (rightly) meds should not be given for an undiagnosed condition. It just shouldn't take so long.

Someone can have crippling shyness without being autistic. Someone can have a repetitive habit along with deep interest in their chosen field without being autistic.

Someone with autism has a collection of a range of symptoms that occur all together, but a NT person might have just one or two of those symptoms and so wouldn't meet the diagnosis criteria.

That doesn't mean that only an ND person can ever have "persistent restricted, repetitive and inflexible patterns of behaviour, interests, or activities that are clearly atypical or excessive for the person’s age and sociocultural context" or whatever other symptom you care to name.

I suppose that's one thing I find quite annoying about this debate. Some people with autism or their family members speak as if they're the only ones who ever have any difficulties. It can sometimes come across as very self-centered.

Wow so my disabled dc are selfish now for having their disabilities diagnosed. Who knew! Only on MN.