Shaking with rage, can't sleep, NHS treatment of elderly

[Krupkrups]

My Grandma (89) has finally come out of hospital tonight finally after nearly nearly 5 weeks.

There's been nothing wrong she had a fall nothing broken, nothing but they wouldn't let her go home my uncle has lived with her for past 8 months since his divorce and she had a career who comes on a lunchtime. They said because she didn't have anyone at home which is bullshit, then social services got involved who were a shower of shite, then the hospital 'forgot' to discharge her twice despite my parents, uncle and care team being at home twice waiting.

Before going into hospital she could;

Get herself and dressed nicely

Get Downstairs / upstairs

Get herself to toilet and wipe herself - no incontinence pants

Make herself food and drinks (hot drinks, kettle on etc.)

Do crosswords

Move around the house with, slowly and with the help of a stick and frame but she did

Her memory was clearly going and she has slowed down cognitively in conversations but she knew we all were still enjoyed face times from my children, still read the paper.

She's come out and frankly it's like she's come out of a Victorian asylum, I am heartbroken, she looks deranged when she's awake sunken eyes strange rolling eyes, has lost an absolute load of weight - she was always very slender possibly too slender before now she looks like a famine survivor.

She is incoherent most of the time when awake.

Can't get out of bed / apparently is imobile - well yes she is now

Can't feed herself isn't eating when being fed

Is wearing adult nappies which have to be changed and the carers are changing and wiping her mess

Is covered in bed sores

I am weeping and raging I feel like driving to the hospital and punching the nurses in that ward in the face!!!! What have they done to her.

Well no not really My DF died of prostate cancer less than seven months ago and DM is now on soluable morphine so its not looking good.

No Martyr complex, I was aware of the work commitments. I’m just not tired from it and winding down with a bit of MN before bed and keep getting tagged by you 🙄. Have you been on shift work too to be up so late?

I have never known any over-80 in my family who went into hospital and who did NOT develop bed sores.

@JohnAmendAll same really although it's usually only one not multiple. I don't know what the general consensus is, some say it's neglect others say it can be unavoidable even with the best care sometimes. I imagine it's incredibly hard to have to turn multiple immobile patients every 2-4 hours as well.

Ah yes cos PAID care of ppl is the only one that matters. No wonder family members are reluctant to care these days when they are treated like this.

I have, thank goodness.

Mind you, when my late husband had his last hospital stay I found myself having to remind hospital staff of the basic care that he was supposed to have on a daily basis - legs creamed, for example, and eye drops applied.

You again? 🤣

Nowhere in my post did I say any of the drivel you have posted here.

Now who’s got the martyr complex as an unpaid carer?

Im glad you find my bereavement and current situation funny.

Is sociopathy a prerequisite of working for the NHS now. Because what with your attitude and the women put through painful hysteroscopies with no notice and no proper painkillers it certainly looks that way

If a patient cannot get up and down the stairs unaided and/or no one to help them, they shouldn't/wouldn't be sent home.

A relative recently failed stairs and was given an extra week in a community hospital for additional therapies and healing time.

Its part of the assessment made to see if they are fit to go home ...or it is down here.

There is zero point sending someone home who is back in 24 hours later, the figures on re admissions is monitored closely.

DM was in and out of A&E the same day Good Friday. She wasnt actually admitted to a ward They said she had only hurt her ribs They did some tests and a scan but did not give DB and DN the results. They were at the hospital with her . They left at 3.15 pm but got called back at 4pm by hospital saying she was being discharged and to take her home

Hmm. A hospital last year discharged my 83 y/o mother, who has Alzheimers, after a recent fall which had left her unable to walk without assistance, without knowing if I (her carer - she lives with me and DH) was home. Which I wasn't - I was on my way to visit her, not having been told she'd been discharged - so it's just as well DH was.

Still, they were a slight improvement on the hospital we took her to on the night of the actual fall, where they tried to discharge her without knowing if she had anyone at home to help her or could even walk, which she was in too much pain to do at the time despite no broken bones.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying hospitals don't have best practices in place, and hopefully adhere to them most of the time, and I know how overburdened the NHS is. It's just been disconcerting recently seeing what can happen when the dots don't join up.

I would totally agree with you. I work on COE wards and think the lengths we go to to keep extremely elderly frail people with 0 quality of life alive is horrific and that is what borders on abuse. I understand people struggle to let go and struggle to be realistic about their family members capacities and duration and quality of life.
However people generally dont understand how quickly people deteriorate in a hospital setting and assume neglect but it's often far from the case. I've seen so many very with-it capable people who get confused, delirium and honestly a bit depressed and give up so quickly that within 2 weeks they are setback by months or years. Traumas such as falls are catastrophic to the elderly in the same way that dropping a baby can be but an older child or adult wouldnt be. (Not the best analogy but just trying to get people to understand.)

I am unaware of your recent bereavement. I am sorry to hear that. I haven’t seen that in a post by you, The only ones I have paid attention to are the ones where you are calling me out and making ridiculous assumptions about my character.

OK, genuine question though. Are you saying you think clinicians should sit at the bedsides of people who are in the state you describe and say to them, 'Yes, Doris, I understand you don't want to die, but I'm afraid you are going to, because the hospital isn't going to treat you any more'?

If not, apologies for my misunderstanding (and I do understand the points you are trying to make re deterioration, I've seen it for myself) but that's what it sounds like.

My apologies @JenniferBooth I do see I quoted a post by you last night where you said your DF had recently passed.

i was very tired and washed out last night (even though I accidentally posted I was not tired) and wasn’t paying full attention. I was quite annoyed by you constantly tagging me though. Can we leave it now? This thread is not the place to have conflict as it’s about the OP’s grandmother.

No worries @DoingthefullGareth My apologies too.

I can only comment on my own experiences and those of my DD's

Hospitals/staff are under huge pressure to free up beds, that means they will sometimes cut corners.

Patients often need an advocate, they shouldn't do but its the result of decades of under investment, if we had the beds and staff that our population requires, we'd give better care to all patients but we prioritised tax cuts over health care.

Understood, and couldn't agree more re tax cuts, it's a bugbear of mine.

But taxes are going up, not down, and have been on average for the past 30 years!

First hand experience here.

I was discharged on Monday after 10 nights in hospital. The first 7 nights I spent on what was termed an Acute Medical Unit. It was an utterly humiliating and degrading experience. Inhumane. I am “only” 78. I was, I think, the youngest in the unit.

The saving grace was that my husband was allowed to be with me during the day and saw to my care: acquiring a wheel chair; unattaching me from the machines; reattaching me to portable ones; wheeling me to the toilet and shower room. That was during day time. The night times were a different story.

What I experienced, and more importantly, what I witnessed, is truly horrifying. Luckily, I am still able to state my case and advocate for myself and I was, for the most part, listened to, especially once I was transferred to a more routine ward for the final three nights.

My MIL spent 48 hours on a trolley in an A&E corridor after being blue lighted with double pneumonia. She was basically ignored. We had to take turns sitting with her, giving her drinks, taking her to the toilet, etc. Our niece took an overnight "shift" and was literally traumatised by the Third World conditions of the A&E - drunks trying to molest her, patients with obvious MH problems harrassing her, etc. We kept virtually begging staff for help, but none of them showed any interest at all - doctor came an prescribed an AB drip but it was never administered. People really don;t understand the reality of "care" in the NHS these days. You really do need someone to advocate for you because the staff either don't care, or don't have time to care and you need to be the "squeaky wheel" to get them to take notice and give you some care!

Your graph show exactly why the UK has shit public services.

We've an aging population, the Tories and to some extent Labour, though they haven't been in power as much as the Tories.... never kept a lid on sickness benefits, preferring to let people move to sickness ones, to lower "official" unemployment figures.

On the NHS specifically, we eat shite, criticise anyone who exercises, take almost zero care of ourselves, to the extent that being over weight, through gluttony, is considered something to proud off instead of to be ashamed about.... then wonder why demand for health services is through the roof.

Nothing to do with over-population then??

I don’t know if that is the case, I’ve met quite a lot of people who are pretty much ready to go the families have been called to say goodbye then they have a last minute rally after a drip and antibiotics and keep limping on crisis after crisis with no quality of life. I think a conversation should be had about whether medical treatment is in a persons best interests or if they should concentrate on pain relief.The reality is they are dying regardless it’s just what would be the best way for that to happen.

So often I think there is a feeling of relief when a beloved relative dies not because you want them dead but they’ve been suffering and it’s gone on for so long. It’s incredibly hard on families.

The NHS was hardly stella when we had a far smaller population.

My district hospital was built in the early 80s, over 43 years ago.... its pretty much exactly the same now as it was then.

Look at your graph? the UK tax take is lower than almost everyone else's... they have better public services.... now why do suppose that is?

Our local trust has had more money allocated since July '24, miraculously, waiting lists have fallen...... more staff, better care = lower lists... who knew!!!