To think money is mostly about luck, not effort?

[TheGreyShark]

I’ve been thinking about how much luck plays a role in financial success. Some people work incredibly hard and never get ahead, while others are born into wealth, stumble into the right opportunities, or just happen to be in the right place at the right time.

I personally feel like the money I have is due to luck, not effort. If I’d been born in different circumstances or made different connections, my financial situation would be totally different.

AIBu to think money is mostly down to luck rather than hard work? Or is effort actually the key factor?

I was born in to total poverty, we literally didn't have a thing, often no food and defo heating was a luxury, my brother even had to wear cloths we'd grown out off, obviously not dresses but shirts coats etc.

Our mum worked her socks off, put her in an early grave but never had much at all... Dad? a waste of space.

I'm quite well off now & its pretty much all luck, a couple of good key decisions but chance in the main.

One thing i have realised though is the easy choices are often the wrong ones, sometimes you do have to do something you really don't want too, for longer term benefit.

Being smart enough to recognise a lucky chance when you see it.
Concentration
Conscientiousness

A lot of the money I have is down to luck (inheritance) but the fact that I still have it is down to me having self control and taking the time to educate myself on how to manage money.
If the same amount of money had fallen into my DHs hands at 18, we would be living a very different lifestyle right now.

Spot on. I came from poverty and my friends didn't, they all earn less, had pay outs for the house they purchased, years on gone up in value and had multiple handouts. Nothing to do with work or effort.
I earn way more, I couldn't get a mortgage, got to be earning 100k or have parent gift money. No equity building and I work the hardest.
If you have wealthy parents, you are lucky, it's a 10x head start. If I had wealthy parents I would be well ahead.
I went to uni and now my degree student loan repayment goes against me for a mortgage. I am telling my children get 100k plus job, giving them as much advice as I can.
My partner is mortgage free because of a inheritance. He managed to buy when it was no deposit required and back then a cleaner could buy. Welcome to the waiting generation where I know people are waiting for their parents to due for an inheritance. I have created a better life which was not due to any luck but hard graft. I am having to do 10x more to still be 5 steps behind from my friends. I am hoping my business will pay off in years to come to buy and have financial freedom. It is so hard with paying out so much with no wealth for backup anywhere.

But you can still get an education once you've left school. I was a straight A* pupil at primary but left secondary at 16 without a single qualification due to five years of extreme bullying which led me to truancy. Once I left that hell hole, I did a mix of evening classes at college and self study to get O and A levels and then did distant study/evening classes/self study to pass around 16 chartered accountancy exams, all alongside working full time in mundane low pay jobs working up from copying & tea girl to trainee accountant roles in a number of small local accounting firms. Your entire adult life really isn't dictated by your school years education! You can turn it around. Yes, it's hard and you have to make sacrifices. I wasn't prepared to throw my life away on unskilled low pay jobs because of a crap school education!

Data scientists who study human behaviour and targeting of different socioeconomic groups would disagree with you.

If you are surrounded by people who tell you constantly you can't, AND you are targeted by various other messages saying you can't AND financially you are penalised by your neighbour AND you have been told repeatedly by various agencies that you can't AND from childhood perhaps have built up a negative profile with the police because your neighbour is targeted in a way that a middle class one isn't (more likely to get stopped=more likely to get found with drugs than peers even if you do the same amount of drugs).

In some ways being a immigrant allows you to break from 'the past' and some of this entrenchment. Consider your life if you had stayed where you were and what opportunities you would have had.

In some ways because English is so widely spoken it means there's little opportunity to learn another language too - just regular expose to other languages makes a difference. You could argue this makes it harder for poor British people to up and leave in the same way someone poor from another country might have more of an opportunity despite other barriers.

There are many factors but I do think this pattern of entrenchment and targeting is particularly damaging and difficult to break out of.

Well said. I am glad you acknowledge how lucky to be born into wealth, it's made such a big difference to yor life. I was unlucky and born into poverty, working so many jobs has given me anxiety from tbe stress of it. Wealth buy freedom, choices and options for a better life in my opinion. Congratulations on being a stay at home mum which is a great benefit to your children.

In my experience it’s mostly luck, usually in the form of family wealth and/or inheritance and connections. Very easy to be good with money when you get gifted a deposit to buy a house, money towards your wedding or the whole thing paid for, every time you run into financial trouble your parents gift or loan you money, no student loans, no need to work at uni as you are given money from family, work experience with family/ friends etc.

I’m from a working class background, but work in a very middle class area and it’s way more common than I ever thought, people tend to massively underestimate how these things give you a huge leg up. Money makes money.

I agree. I'm an accountant and see exactly the same. Such as two brothers, exactly the same family background, and from spending many years talking to both as clients, I'd say both are similarly intelligent. One is a struggling driving instructor with barely two beans to rub together as he seems to spend as soon as he receives the money, regularly makes bad decisions, and has no savings for his retirement so will be dependant only on state pension. The other is an independent financial adviser, earning over £100k p.a., pension pot of over a million, but he seems to make better choices, doesn't fritter the money away on frivolities etc. You really can't say there was any difference in family background/upbringing - both went to the same schools etc.

I'd go further and compare myself and my brother. We went to different schools - he went to a private school, I went to a comp. He got better school leaving qualifications than I did. I got none and had to "self teach" mostly to get O and A levels after leaving school with a few evening classes. He virtually walked into a civil service job as he had the requisite O levels in those days. He had opportunities for internal promotions, but couldn't be arsed to go on training courses etc so he languished on a CO (clerical officer) grade for 2 or 3 decades and then took redundancy (and splurged his redundancy payout on nonsense!). Since then he's had a succession of minimum wage dead end jobs such as shop work, driving, etc. I turned it around after leaving school, got O and A levels and then became a chartered accountant. We're no different intelligent nor academically - but he's hopeless with money, just spends as soon as he gets it on rubbish, and is incapable of long term planning nor sensible decision making. Everything I've done since leaving school has been with a long term aim in mind, right from getting a crap job in an accountancy practice, through to moving around different employers getting broad experiences so I could give up working to start my own practice - lots of "pain" along the way and sacrifices/risks, but I'm now in a good place, whereas brother is still working minimum wage in a shop at the moment!

People who are able to see the bigger picture, can plan, and can make things happen are more likely to be more successful. Plodders who can't see beyond what they're buying with their next payslip generally won't/

Both luck and hard work. I know an extremely lucky man, he has had multiple random big financial windfall from inheritance from friends parents, being bought out of website address ownership, and all.sorts.of totally random things. He's always broke and allergic to any sort of effort. Luck on goes so far, and the same applies to family money.

I manage my own money effectively & always have done

Wages
Savings
Pension
property
shares

However , how many posts do you read where some people never manage their own finances ?
Or how many people do you know that never change their bank account to receive a better interest rate ?

There are lots of simple & easy ways to manage your own money

The simplist

Do not spend beyond your means

Always save a little for emergencies

Why are some people not interested in managing their own finances?

Very well said. Handouts and the right mindset can get you very rich. Plus handouts are tax free which makes itveasier to get ahead. It is hard not to get jealous.

To be a straight A student at primary you must have had some parental support.

If people are born into a family who don't support kids at primary level, reading to them, listening to them reading. You aren't going to over come that alone.
The attainment gap is real.

Your also missing you got an entry level job in an accountants. If that entry level job was in a dying industry they'd have been less opportunities to be recognised and move on in life.

Don't underestimate the lucky breaks people get early on.

Yes forgot to add very expensive gifts as well, best friend had a baby and her mother in law paid for the cot, the pram, baby shower, christening party, they get regular Xmas gifts of thousands of pounds, free holidays, £100k for an extension. My brother’s in laws are very wealthy, they’ve had almost everything they need for their baby bought by her parents, thousands gifted for new windows, new boiler paid for, holidays paid for etc.

I really see the difference it makes to your life having well off family or in laws, it’s not even just a leg up, it’s constant financial help, we earn the same as my best friend and her husband and more than my brother and his wife, but our lifestyles and assets are massively different.

There is no excuse to manage your money more efficiently for the average person

Unless they are lazy or allocate no time to do this each month

There are tons of information on the Internet

Even work pensions are offered to most people automatically now (can opt out)

@Needspaceforlego My family were not supportive. I taught myself to read before I went to school, I now know it’s called Hyperlexia and is a sign of ASD. I’m also hyper mobile, no one else in the family is remotely like me.

I ended up marrying a guy I met when we worked together. He is very like me. He had a supportive family, because I didn’t I knew I had to make it on my own and it made me very much a fighter and very resourceful. DH and I have made quite a decent amount of money over the years by investing. No brokers, no financial advisers, just have a natural knack for it. I look at him and see the cogs of his mind literally whirring. We are really good at multi step analysis hence we are good with money.

I am I would say a little odd and it’s an effort to hide it but I have been told I’m pretty and people have used words like cute. That has worked in my favour for sure.

@OneQuirkyPanda I am entirely self made, plus have a good marriage.

I will say heart over head has been the demise of many people I have met. My absolute non emotional black and white thinking has helped me in life.

@PensionMention

I will say heart over head has been the demise of many people I have met. My absolute non emotional black and white thinking has helped me in life.

Yes, I agree. I'm very analytical and logical, and that really helped me with longer term planning etc. Also marrying the "right" man which again was head over heart and has worked out for us as he's exactly the same. Neither of us do anything impulsive - everything we do, everything we buy, is well thought out and considered and part of a bigger plan. Right down to meal planning so we have virtually no food waste and writing markings on toothpaste, shower gel, shampoo bottles, etc so that we take the "right" amount on holiday with us, so nothing to bring back and no waste. Look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves.

I think your last sentence absolutely nails it. There is luck, skill, work ethic, circumstances and choices. The last one can be tough to admit - that you made choices that led to a low paid career, or debt, or whatever else. And when you regret your choices you might write off other people's choices as luck.

Nail on the head as regards choices!

Good for you but society needs so called plodders, we need drivers, shop workers, folk who will pack pasties or assemble parts in a factory, for little reward.

Its interesting you have such a high opinion of yourself and very little for your brother.

To the pp, I also doubt very much anyone earning 25k pa owns flats mortgage free, i mean how would you even get a mortgage/save for a deposit on that wage?

Anyone who has, its because of either direct or indirect family help eg living at home rent and bill free.

Thats the problem with many people who have done well with their lives, they look down on people who have not.

Being an immigrant emphasises personal accountability. Immigrant kids grow up with the attitude that it’s all down to personal responsibility and that they have to work much harder than the indigenous population to have access to the same opportunities.

Some people DO mange their money well. But managing it means living on minimum wage with highish ( in comparison to income) necessary outgoings and not getting into debt. Not have money spare to save more than £50 a month if that never mind buying shares

Very easy to “make the right choices” and save money away in pensions and ISAs, have no debt and be mortgage free when you earn well. I don’t doubt there are people who are very comfortable with large savings and no debt who started from nothing and are not on huge salaries, but I think they are very very much in the minority.

If someone is on 25-35k they’re unlikely to have much spare income to save and invest, any emergencies or unplanned expenses are likely to put them into debt unless they have help from family, as they won’t have significant savings to fall back on. It’s often not about being bad with money, it’s about not having enough.

Luck is a big part and privilege gives you a starting point and a big leg up, but its not everything. For example I am lucky to be healthy, intelligent with a good middle class upbringing (at a slightly dodgy high school). But I've also made some good choices on the way = picked a good degree and worked hard for a 1st that's allowed me to work in a lucrative industry (pharma). A zoology 2:2 does not open as many doors as a 1st in genetics, even though I would have much preferred zoology.

Moved from my first job which I loved when I could see the company struggling, plenty of my colleagues sat around, then acted surprised when they got made redudant and some struggled to get something else. I got a big payrise but had to move 3hrs from home (which I didn't want to do). I've built myself a really strong professional reputation and so could move to the best company in our sector. Ive worked hard here, 2 promotions over 5 years and we all got huge share bonuses last year. So luck gave me opportunities, which I then capitalised on = success.

Your laughing emoji @Badbadbunny backs up everything i wrote, thankyou.